At what point do you start to see the cards "differently"?

[Vollycat]

I am wondering when you start to see the cards as 'this is a calculated out'. Another way I guess to say it is when do you start to look at the cards and then start using math to figure your best move--compared to using the seat of your pants. I can see taking in the number of outs and making a judgement, but how often is math being used to say my odds are..... I understand outs and looking at the board for the best move, but.. I suppose I'm hung up on the 'math' part.
Also along that line of thinking,--Taking advice from HEFAP, how often should I consider, "I think he's thinks I have XX" and then make my decisions based on that info.
I know this is a vague question, but I think my game is coming along alright but this is the next avenue I need to consider to take it up a notch. Yet I'm having trouble settling down and instead continue to just flying with my gut feelings.
Thanks in advance!

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
. Another way I guess to say it is when do you start to look at the cards and then start using math to figure your best move--compared to using the seat of your pants.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there comes a point where you end up using the seat of your pants again. That is, after you get so used to the maths, you can almost always judge whether the pot is big enough and you have enough outs without actually having to work it out. Of course, you have to be able to work it out first but you say you know how to do this, try just dealing hands from a pack of cards and dealing a flop and working out the number of outs and the odds needed for each respective hands. Do this for a couple of hours, you should really get good at it.

[scotnt73]

I think its after you become a break even player. At that point i started really studying and trying to get any edge i could find to cross that last hurdle.

The other night i was watching WPT with my brother who i introduced to the game. Hes only been playing for a couple of months. I cant remember the play at all but he asked me if id have called in a certain situation and i did the math outloud in a matter of seconds. He was stunned and thought i was way better than i am just because i actually used math.

[stir]

I'm assuming you are relatively new to the game. If that's the case, then keep in mind that the prime focus of HEFAP is mid-limt and higher games.

I strongly suggest you spend your time at the table thinking about a range of hands you want to put you opponent on. That is much more important early on, then trying to calculate: "I think, that he thinks, that I am thinking XXX..."

[AsusFull]

I had trouble understanding what you're asking but I'll take a shot. I would say probably WHEN YOU START LOSING is when you learn to not listening to the seat of your pants!.

I had this pretty basic limit texas holdem computer game which I played, and hands went by in seconds. I was able to quickly see that low-mid suited connectors do not play well in raised pots, KJ can get dominated easily, etc, so I was able to play pretty tight even when I started out. I tried to stick to starting hand suggestions and they worked. I quickly found that playing "pretty cards" out of position didn't.

The books telling you what hands to play or specifically how to play them are really like training wheels, but since money is at stake, not a bruised knee, you need to follow them until you understand why they work. Learning on your own is too costly [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

You need many many hours and hands to develop a good "seat of the pants". Right now it will only lead you astray.

[Hops7]

pot odds