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#1
11-12-2005, 06:00 AM
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Getting theoretical with 88
Very loose and LAGgy MP3 limps. I raise 88 on the button. The blinds fold.
Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] He bets, I call. Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] He bets Assume that I am committed to showdown. Assume that you know he'll bet literally anything here. What's the best line? 
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#3
11-12-2005, 06:06 AM
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Re: Getting theoretical with 88
You didn't say whether he'd fire again on the river with air, but going by the description I'd say it's safe to say he will. Call down.
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#7
11-12-2005, 09:20 AM
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Re: Getting theoretical with 88
[ QUOTE ]
Raise. Call a 3-bet. Call the river. [/ QUOTE ]
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#8
11-12-2005, 09:42 AM
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Re: Getting theoretical with 88
[ QUOTE ]
Raise. Call a 3-bet. Call the river. With the read you've given i dont see why this hand is that difficult. [/ QUOTE ] hey rmarotti. i don't see why this is so easy. jason didn't say he was a *maniac*. although perhaps you're assuming he is? if this guy is not folding, a raise will only be profitable against the most maniacal players; ie, players who will often 3bet a worse hand. against a merely LAGgy player, raising here allows you to be exploited in the one way that LAGs can exploit you -- making you pay them off when they do have a hand.
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#9
11-12-2005, 09:57 AM
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Re: Getting theoretical with 88
[ QUOTE ]
Raise. Call a 3-bet. Call the river. With the read you've given i dont see why this hand is that difficult. [/ QUOTE ] Seems like alot of bets going in hoping he doesn't have and Ace "this time"...No?? Loose and Laggy is a very broad description so it's hard to determine a good line. If we raise and he folds a 6 outter I think thats good, but if he is not capable of that(which most lags aren't)do we really want to be putting in 4 bets not to mention another possible overcard on the river that makes calling that much harder. It's not like he is getting a free card to draw either. I like calling or folding more than raising, but againn these things change the more the scales tilt towards Lag/Maniac.
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#10
11-12-2005, 10:03 AM
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Re: Getting theoretical with 88
I don't think you can raise at any point profitably if you plan to call a 3-bet, unless the guy loves to make big bluffs in small pots.
I'd be inclined to raise the turn if I could safely fold to a 3-bet. I'd also be inclined to check behind the river, unless you are against someone who calls very liberally (K high) on the river and whose failure to 3-bet indicates that he doesn't have a Q and probably not an A high. But generally, I like calling down, probably with the intention of folding if bet into again after a third broadway card hits the river. If we are ahead, I think it's likely we are against JT/KJ/KT or a lower PP. I don't know how likely a little PP is if he keeps betting into you as high cards come out, though there are some players who will keep betting into you no matter what irregardless of what is on the board until you raise them. So my plan is to keep calling, hoping he will continue to bluff with the hands we beat. Definitely call the river unless an A, K, J, or T hits. If an A hits, you have to decide whether he will fold less than a full house if you raise. Calling hoping he has 22 - 66 seems bad to me, even if you were sure he would play those hands this way and bet them on the river as a bluff (or a valuebet with 3 pair b/c he doesn't know any better [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). Don't have time to do the hand ranges, but it looks bad even assuming that and I doubt we can have a read that good anyway. If a K, J, or T hits it's time to reassess. Call against very aggressive players; fold if the player shows less aggression on the river.
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