JJ on a K-high board

[chesspain]

Party 1/2...typical fishy table, although the player to my immediately left (MP2) is tricky and aggressive...

I'm im MP1 and dealt J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Folded to me and I raise, MP2 three-bets, folded to the CO who coldcalls three, button coldcalls three, folded to BB who coldcalls, I call...five to the flop for 16SB.


K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to me and I check, MP2 bets, folded to button who calls, I fold...

Flame away!...Results and my thoughts to follow...

[chesspain]

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Check, check


[K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Check, check

MP2 wins with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Button showed A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (!?)

I realized after I played this hand that I should have bet into the field on the flop, and possibly folded to a raise. I guess with four players willing to put three bets in PF, it was difficult for me to believe that no one would have a K or even QQ, although by checking I was begging to lose this hand.

Whereas the bet by MP2 on the flop did not overly concern me, the call by the button did, especially on this raggedy board, which is why I folded, even though looking back I probably had the implied odds to turn a J even if I knew I was up against Kx.

Double Bleh!

[Joe Tall]

I'd bet the flop or check/fold once there is at least 1 caller to the flop bet.

There have been a few experimenting w/capping JJ preflop, that may have changed the dynamic of this hand, but I only cap JJ in the perfect situation.

I think betting the flop is the only way to get a read on this hand. I think you folded the winner due to the post, however, it's not worthy of a 'flame'.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I realized after I played this hand that I should have bet into the field on the flop, and possibly folded to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, yup.

Double bleh and a meh,
Joe Tall

[LaggyLou]

I agree that you should have bet the flop. If it's raised and called perhaps throw it away. If it's raised by Mr. Tricky and you end up heads up then certainly call.

Heads up on the turn I'd consider betting out, on the theory that most hands that beat me will raise and then I can throw it away and save the river bet. But I also see calling it down as a reasonable option.

Something else to consider on the flop is a check-raise. If you are ahead and no one improves everyone will fold when you bet out on the turn, and then you will have gained an extra bet from each of your opponents (assuming they both call).

[Trix]

Couldn´t a Tricky aggressive player try to isolate you with 99-TT. I think that untill he gives you a reason to think otherwise then you cant fold. I´m more worried by the CO coldcalling 3, pretty fishy, since its Cap or Fold Imo.
Think you have to bet or checkraise(not sure if betting and getting raised is enough to lay down at turn?(he is tricky... If he 3Bet a CR then it would be though) the flop and take it from there.
Tough hand...

[jonahmavesin]

I think I'm going to flame a little.

the guy who bet out on the flop is the same one that 3-bet the flop after your raise. that means that, without seeing the flop at all, anyone at that table would expect to see: you check, he bets. that's just the way the game plays, especially at 1/2 - everyone checks to the last PF raiser, who then bets. it's almost tradition. that means I put him at 0% credibility for have the K.

now, most at the table will think the same way. that means that many, many people will call hoping for something to hit on the turn (and some will go to the river, hence your profits). I would put the button on an A if I was playing this, and that would have been right.

as for the bettor, you don't really know what he has yet, but you have to assume he doesn't yet have the K.

as others have suggested, the right play here is to bet out and see if you get raised. even if you do I might call and bet out the turn, depending on the player. but at least bet out on the flop. calls behind on the flop do not represent Ks in my eyes, not at 1/2. only trust raises, and even then, not clear.

ESPECIALLY given the large pot that built pre-flop. you need to spend more to try and win this pot, not folding until you're really sure you won't.

I think you played this the way I imagine 10/20 is played. perhaps you should stay out of the Mid-/High-Stakes forum! At 1/2, you can't believe these guys are staying in with only top pair or better, not until they give you reason to.