4/8 blind defense -- too reckless?

[private joker]

So I'm playing in a super-juicy 4/8 game at the Hustler, where we know there's only one blind ($4) to the left of the button. I'm in the blind this hand and the player to my right loves raising PF from the button, especially when there's nobody in the pot.

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
folded to CO, who limps, <font color="red"> Button raises, </font> Hero calls, CO calls

Too loose against a blind steal? J7s is about the most marginal hand I can think of in this situation. But this guy would steal with any two cards. He would also steal with AA...

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, <font color="red">Button bets, Hero raises,</font> CO folds, Button calls.

Okay, so I had to check-raise because 1) I think I have the best hand; and 2) to isolate the button in case CO has some goofy draw. The isolation worked and Button just called. On to the turn...

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets, button raises, Hero 3-bets </font>, button calls

Wha? I was planning on betting the turn regardless, but it was a totally harmless card that could have only helped me -- it gave me 2 pair! If I was behind to AJ on the flop, I'm sure ahead now. Unless button spiked a set of 7s. Did he? Hmm... I thought he might, but I 3-bet anyway, because, well, I need to be aggressive post-flop. This is the hardest street on the hand, so I'll stop here and see what people say. How's the 3-bet? What's my plan for the river, and if it depends, what do you do if the river is a) an overcard; b) a heart; c) something that completes a potential straight; d) pairs the board (but not a J or 7).

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
J7s is about the most marginal hand I can think of in this situation.

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J7s is way less than "marginal" for a blind defense--especially since there was already a limper in the pot before the button raised. I would have folded this without a second thought.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
J7s is about the most marginal hand I can think of in this situation.

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J7s is way less than "marginal" for a blind defense--especially since there was already a limper in the pot before the button raised. I would have folded this without a second thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

I forgot to mention that the limper was a drunk imbecile who virtually never folded preflop. (Since he was out of the hand fast I didn't think to post a read on him -- in a prior hand I had T9 on an AKTxx board and bet into him heads-up twice; he called me down only to muck when I showed my middle pair.)

[Nick C]

If your session went anything like my latest one, Button capped the turn, you called, and then you check-called when the river brought the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and then were shown 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Anyway, Button could have a set of sixes or twos or even a set of sevens or jacks. But he could also have something like A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or just plain old AJ or an overpair. (Maybe, after you checkraised, he was waiting for the turn to raise again.) I think the 3-bet is fine, with top two pair and no completed draws on the board.

If Button caps, I probably bet the river and call a raise. On the river, I'm more scared of a heart or an ace than a card that completes a straight, so if Button capped and a heart or ace fell, I might just check-call. And I would probably do the same if the river brought a 6 or a 2.

But after tonight's session, maybe I would check-call the river regardless.

[private joker]

In the initial post I did show that button merely called my 3-bet. So I assume you suggest I bet the river and call a raise regardless?

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
In the initial post I did show that button merely called my 3-bet. So I assume you suggest I bet the river and call a raise regardless?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah. How did I miss that? I do feel better about making the river bet if the card that falls is not an ace, a 6, a 2, or a heart, but I think a river bet would be good regardless.

[gaming_mouse]

I think this is an EASY 3-bet, especially if button is aggressive, which I guess that he is. Also, does he respect check/raises? I know in the 4/8 games I've been playing, a c/r doesn't mean anything to these people. Some will 3-bet for fun. There was one guy who, after someone bet into him on the river, would often say, "I lose. You think I care? I raise." Then the person would call, he would show a 52o which didn't connect with the board, and repeat scornfully, "You think I care? I don't care." It was awesome.

Anyway, bet the river and call a raise.

gm

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I know in the 4/8 games I've been playing, a c/r doesn't mean anything to these people. Some will 3-bet for fun. There was one guy who, after someone bet into him on the river, would often say, "I lose. You think I care? I raise."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is hilarious.

[Kirg]

I don't see anything wrong with preflop, personally I would want at least J8s here but I don't see playing J7s here as a huge mistake.
I play the hand exactly the same on the flop and turn and I'm betting any non-heart, 6 or 2 and calling a raise while check-calling any heart, 6 or 2.
I wouldn't be surprised to see 77 or even JJ (even though there's only 1 remaining combination of those) but I'm not giving credit for them.

[private joker]

Even though there was only one way to have JJ, Villain had it. I bet the river and he raised me $3 more all-in (I just realized at that point he was down to the felt; if I had noticed earlier I would have had even less respect for his raise); so I called and he revealed his top set. I was drawing dead after the flop.