Throwing Screwballs?

[kelvin474]

This is a situation that I encounter with a decent frequency. I'd like to know if I'm pushing too hard.

The game is 5-10 stud at Party Poker. The ante is $.50, bring-in $2.00.

I have a K upcard, and it's the highest. I have a gutshot straight and a two-flush also. Folded to me in a middle position, and I try to steal the antes. An "8" is the only caller.

I catch a Jack to his suited "2" on 4th. I bet, he calls. I now need a Ten to make a 9TJQK straight. 5th, I get an Ace, and so does he. I bet again, he calls. 6th, I brick with a 4. He gets a six.

Boards on 6th
me: Kh Jc Ad 4d
him: 8h 2h Ac 6c.

Check, Check on 6th. River comes and I pair Kings. What is my play- I am totally lost as to what hand he has in these situations. I've been shown busted 4-flushes as often as two medium pairs it seems.

Also, how far do I carry this ante-steal? It seems as though I have enough to carry on (wayward son) on 4th street; at what point do I need to make a hand?

[Drunk Bob]

You don't say what your holecards are so Well itdepends.

[kelvin474]

[MRBAA]

Generally speaking that hand is a routine fold on third for me. The money you make stealing doesn't compensate for the times you get called and lose, because this hand doesn't have enough ways to improve. What's more, a lot of the ways it can improve aren't that strong. Like catching a jack for a gutshot on fourth. I'd just check and fold to a bet there.

[7stud]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a K upcard, and it's the highest. I have a gutshot straight and a two-flush also. Folded to me in a middle position, and I try to steal the antes. An "8" is the only caller.

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems a little too early of a position to steal from with those cards, but depending on the players and the cards that are out, it may have been a good attempt. For instance, if the players behind you are tight and they all have 4's.

[ QUOTE ]
I catch a Jack to his suited "2" on 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, essentially you had nothing, and your opponent might have had a flush draw. That should have been an easy check and fold. Note that a good player wouldn't play a flush draw against you without an ace, so you may already be behind in the hand(King high v. Ace high). I think it's more likely your opponent would be playing a pair against a single opponent than a flush draw, and since you raised with a King, that would also indicate they should have an ace, unless you were in an obvious steal position.

I think your hand is a classic example of what poker authors describe as a player getting out of line on 3rd street and then compounding their mistake on later streets. S, M, & Z say that expert players can start off a bit wrong because they can easily get away from hands that don't materialize.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know if I'm pushing too hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't tell from your description whether you had a flush draw or not to go along with your gutshot straight draw, but assuming you didn't, you basically bluffed the whole way with nothing. I'd say that's pushing too hard.

[patrick dicaprio]

1. i think this is an Ok position to try to steal. but keep in mind that this is a much different hand than AK9, which you might want to play on with depending upon what happens on fourth street. with your hand you should follow the book and either bet or check and fold.

2.on fourth street you have 9JQK. your opponent has 82 suited. while it is easy to say he might have a draw here i would bet. if he calls then see what you catch and if it is good on fifth bet again. which i guess you did.

3. on the river, since you checked on sixth you should check and call to try to pick off a bluff. if you had bet on sixth then you probably should still check but may want to bet as a bluff if you didnt catch the K. with a pair of kings you make more money check calling than you do betting. but if your bet is a situation where players call with anything because they might get bluffed, which is often the case at low limits, then you should bet. his check on sixth shows weakness just as much as yours does so there is some chance your hand is good.

Pat

[Andy B]

I would like your steal raise more if this were a $20/40 game where the risk/reward ratio is more favorable, and a steal is more likely to work. If the game was fairly tight, then a steal is fine, but in a typical $5/10, your raise probably costs you money, and your hand is probably not quite worth a limp, either.

When he calls your strong board and strong betting with 82s, he's probably on a flush draw. At least, he should be. In that case, he's probably not going anywhere, and you can adjust accordingly. When you hit the Ace and bet again, the flush draw has been more or less confirmed. Checking sixth is probably just fine. Having paired, I'd check and call the river. If you had failed to pair, you should probably attempt a bluff just so he doesn't call you with a small pair.

[Andy B]

You're going to check and fold fourth street? He has four overcards to opponent's board, and the other guy doesn't have to have a flush draw, does he?

I like to think I play pretty well (although there was a certain amount of contrary evidence when I was playing $20/40 at Foxwoods this week), but I call full bets with Ace-free three-flushes all the time. I might not if I thought the pot was going to be heads-up, but in a $5/10, heads-up pots aren't that common, are they? If there are a lot of heads-up pots in my stud game, I'm scouting hold'em games.