The American Prospect

[Zeno]

I just received a great letter from Robert Reich, founder of The American Prospect, shown below:

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Dear Reader,

A most critical election is upon us. Radical conservatives now have wall-to-wall control of the federal government. The results? A rogue foreign policy, the wreckage of our civil liberties and a tax policy that rewards the rich and sacks the economy.

Now, more than ever, liberals need some creativity and some spine, some convictions and some courage. The magazine that I founded and help edit, The American Prospect, is a blueprint for a progressive resurgence. When the conservative experiment fails – and it will fail – the next generation of liberal leaders will look to the ideas that you can read today in The American Prospect.

I write a column in every issue of the Prospect. I’m also a faithful reader of it. I depend on the other articles in the Prospect for cutting-edge ideas, thoughtful campaign analysis and for exposés about the scoundrels who are running the country.

Magazines like ours are communities of thinkers and activists. They are often the sources of political ideas and movements that can change history and restore hope. Won’t you join our community?

Sincerely,

Robert Reich

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This tract has finally made me see the light. I have been praying to the wrong person all this time!!! Robert Reich is the proper person to pray to, not the amorphous noun God. Robert Reich will lead us all down to the River Jordan to be baptized with the 'blueprint for a progressive resurgence', and then the community will cross over into the Promised Land.

I have seen the error of my ways; I have been saved. Amen. Robert Reich is my Lord and Savoir and the New Messiah for the New Millennium.

Won’t you join me in this new community that will change history and restore hope? I hope so.

Now, Let Us Pray.

[Stu Pidasso]

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This tract has finally made me see the light. I have been praying to the wrong person all this time!!! Robert Reich is the proper person to pray to, not the amorphous noun God. Robert Reich will lead us all down to the River Jordan to be baptized with the 'blueprint for a progressive resurgence', and then the community will cross over into the Promised Land.

I have seen the error of my ways; I have been saved. Amen. Robert Reich is my Lord and Savoir and the New Messiah for the New Millennium.

Won’t you join me in this new community that will change history and restore hope? I hope so.


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It has been my preception that people who go around making fun of the belief in a deity have unresolved issues they need to deal with.

Stu

[Zeno]

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It has been my preception that people who go around making fun of the belief in a deity have unresolved issues they need to deal with.


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First, you misunderstand the reason for the post. The interconnection of politics and religion occurs at various levels and I find it more than just a little interesting. From language use to themes and tones in speaking and writing politics and religion share a common ground that goes back deep into human history and probably deep into the human psyche.

Second, making fun of the belief in a deity is useful and does not necessarily tie into ‘unresolved issues’ whatever that is suppose to mean. It is those that proclaim that they have ALL the answers and no ‘unresolved issues’ that have, more often than not, caused much of the ills that inflict the human race. If you mean I have some personal ‘unresolved issues’ thanks for the concern but I submit that your perception is off in this case, at least for the subject at hand.

Third, Religion and the belief in a deity is not something sacrosanct. There is no reason to show any more respect to religious opinions (including the belief in a deity) than other opinions get. Indeed, there is every reason to suspect that they should get a great deal less respect, say as a belief in astrology and numerology should. One reason rational discourse is so seldom seen in the area of religion is the societal convention that one must respect every person's opinion in the field of religion. This is nonsense of course but continues on unabated and always puts the ‘non-religious’ person at an immediate disadvantage in any debate and also in trying to knock some sanity into the world. I always opt for a vigorous offense and attack. Thus, I usually elicit the kind of response that you gave; that somehow something must be wrong with me, perhaps you should switch this around and look at yourself instead.

-Zeno

[Stu Pidasso]

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First, you misunderstand the reason for the post. The interconnection of politics and religion occurs at various levels and I find it more than just a little interesting. From language use to themes and tones in speaking and writing politics and religion share a common ground that goes back deep into human history and probably deep into the human psyche.

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Now your trying to spin it. The truth is you were simply ridiculing the belief in a diety.

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Second, making fun of the belief in a deity is useful and does not necessarily tie into ‘unresolved issues’ whatever that is suppose to mean....... I usually elicit the kind of response that you gave

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You get that response because you are ridiculing something that is perfectly natural to man. Go to KFC and ridicule people for eating chicken. Many of the patrons would dismiss you as nutball as they continue to order their 15 piece buckets. If you instead wrote an article making an argument that Tofu is much healthier than chicken, people might still disagree with you, but at least they would still view you with respect.

Stu

[Zeno]

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Now your trying to spin it. The truth is you were simply ridiculing the belief in a deity.


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Wrong. I have made similar post in the past with the same themes. No spin at all, I both ridicule politics and religion (this includes a belief in a deity). They are interconnected in my opinion.

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You get that response because you are ridiculing something that is perfectly natural to man.

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That is your assumption not mine. It may be 'natural' but that does not necessarily mean that it is rational or good or overall makes people better human beings. In fact a perusal of history would show the opposite. We are currently living in a time when the facts speak in my favor and not yours.

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If you instead wrote an article making an argument that Tofu is much healthier than chicken, people might still disagree with you, but at least they would still view you with respect.


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I am too naturally sarcastic and admit that I may come off badly sometimes but I make no more apologies in this direction. I made a post about this some months back. But, to put it succinctly morals and/or ethics are better applied through the use of intelligence and not superstition and fear. Thus, the base for right action is more civil and genuine and not driven by a credulous belief in arbitrary entities (God(s)) or imposed from above by some interpretive authority (Priest craft). In addition, when morals and ethics are driven by intelligent societal self-interest and a feeling of reciprocity humanity would be better off. Religions in general get lost in arcane theology and political and social entanglements and become more harmful than productive to this end. But this could be a very long and involved discussion and a short post simply cannot cover all the ground.


The respect issue is beside the point. It you do not respect my posts then do not response to them. I think that you fear an attack on your cherished beliefs and you take it personally. You should not. I have enjoyed many of your posts. You just have to get use to the fact that I am a misanthrope. In addition, I want to state that I am not in the conversion business. I advocate a skeptical outlook but will simple state my position and that is all.

I can start a different post if you want with a different starting point if you wish to discuss the above issues or you can start one on your own.

Le Misantrope

[Dynasty]

Although I disagree with him most of the time, I respect Robert Reich. He's a true liberal believer. That's a hell of a lot better than being a common political opportunist.

But, he's so liberal even Massachusetts wouldn't elect him to office in 2002.

[Stu Pidasso]

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It may be 'natural' but that does not necessarily mean that it is rational or good or overall makes people better human beings. In fact a perusal of history would show the opposite. We are currently living in a time when the facts speak in my favor and not yours.

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I believe that the facts show that as the belief in God is removed from society, the propensity of man to commit evil increases. A perusal of the history of the 20th century speaks in my favor and not yours. I am certain that the positive effects of religion have outweighed the negatives; more so than my belief in God Himself.

Stu

[The once and future king]

As far as I can see belief in god is a major cause of the evil inflicting our world right now.

We have a conflict between secular modern civilisations and tribal religous groups.

Or did you mean belief in a certian god by a certain people.

[Zeno]

A Robert Reich article: The Politics of One America

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But, he's so liberal even Massachusetts wouldn't elect him to office in 2002.

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Now that is a shocker.

-Zeno

[Zeno]

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I believe that the facts show that as the belief in God is removed from society, the propensity of man to commit evil increases.

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All societies have an overwhemiling majority of people that believe in 'God' and this majority has been constant throughout time. I cannot recall exact numbers at the moment but I have seen polls that put belief in God or some deity at close to 95%. This was probably for America and the numbers vary by country but it is near this in most other countries also, or at least very high. So the belief in God is not at all 'removed from society'. I do not think this occurs on any large scale.

To use an historical example to illustrate the opposite of what you proposed, the slaughter of Jews and Gypsies by Nazi Germany was perpetrated by a predominately Christian people, with both a Protestant and Catholic background. No removal of a belief in God was necessary to accomplish this feat. In fact, the antecedent for the ease at which this was done is found in Christianity itself.

-Zeno