Reassurance

jason_t · #1 12-23-2004, 08:51 PM

No reads.

I know know know not to be results oriented, but it feels like I am constantly folding the winning hands in situations like the one below. Of course, there are times where I folded the losing hand. I just want reassurance that the fold on the turn is correct. Or was the fold wrong? Should I have led the turn and folded to a raise? Should I showdown this hand?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO (poster) folds, Button 3-bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero caps, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (19 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (11 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, Hero folds, MP2 calls.

River: (13 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 13 BB
 Main Pot: 13 BB between MP2 and Button. 

Results in white below: 
MP2 has 6c 5c (one pair, fives).
Button has Qs Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Button wins 13 BB.

MoDOH · #2 12-23-2004, 08:54 PM

Sorry, You have to bet this turn, just have to...
And if you decide to check you must call one bet coming back to you...
just bad poker...

DemonDeac Holding Rockets · #3 12-23-2004, 09:00 PM

I actually thought while reading your post that the button man had Qs because the flop didn't get capped, just called the 1-bet. Leading into the turn is the best option and then leading into the river with the expensive bets, that'll make the button at least think before handing his money over to you through a fold or in losing the showdown.

ghostface · #4 12-23-2004, 09:07 PM

Dont post the results! After seeing them my argument gets all f'ed up.

Bet the turn, bet the river.

blumpkin22 · #5 12-23-2004, 09:09 PM

Well, I would not say it is bad poker, it is just too-tight poker.

Certainly the pre-flop play is correct. What about post-flop? Well, the Button 3-bets you pre-flop, which you probably think is either AA, QQ, AK, or JJ. MP2 could really have anything. I like the bet on the flop. While the ace is ugly, you may have the best hand. Since MP2 calls, he may have Ax, but the Button calling seems to rule out AK, so after the flop I'm only scared of MP2's despicable A-rag that he will call down with, or a slow-played monster like AA from the Button.

A bet on the turn should reveal what is going on. MP2 will probably fold with a gutshot (actually, is he getting the odds?) or call with Ax. The Button will probably fold QQ-JJ if you bet and MP2 calls, and will raise with AA or TT. If both players call the turn bet, I do not fire again on the river. Whether you check-call or check-fold on the river is a tough decision.

blumpkin

jason_t · #6 12-23-2004, 09:43 PM

Please elaborate. Obviously I had the good sense to question my play but I was hoping for some insightful analysis from the forum into WHY it was bad play.

jason_t · #7 12-23-2004, 09:56 PM

Fold to raises?

droolie · #8 12-23-2004, 10:00 PM

Your play was very weak tight. Throw away the Lee Jones book and buy SSH. You gave up on the turn because you had three callers on the flop? Just because they all called your flop bet does not mean they have the A. The pot is big and they could have just about any justification for calling. As a matter of fact they probably don't have the A or they likely would have raised. Bet the turn. Think about folding only when you hit some resistance. The button's bet on the turn means nothing since you checked to him. Bare minumum you need to call this down.

mcozzy1 · #9 12-23-2004, 10:18 PM

Your key piece of information came on the flop. The button not raising your bet was a sign of weakness. It's always incredibly scary when an ace comes on the flop when you have KK, but it's not an automatic fold. Your hand is just too good relative to the size of the pot to fold; especially since no one has shown strength since the flop.

Betting the turn would be my first choice. Checking and calling down would be my 2nd. The only other hand I would put the button on besides QQ would be AA. I might be a little scared of a raise on the turn.

(you got to love people like MP2)