Guy McSuckout

[Guy McSucker]

I just delivered a very bad beat.

Party horrible $25 NLHE. I have AK in late position.

An early player who has been quiet to date opens for $3. I call; nobody else does.

Flop is K-J-4 rainbow. First time I've hit thew flop with AK today.

He pauses for some time and eventually bets $3. I completely misread this as a pocket pair that hates the overcard(s) on the flop or AQ that missed; perhaps AJ.

Being an idiot I raise all-in, about $25 more. He calls, as would anyone in his position: he had JJ.

I of course use my supreme skills to hit running aces and win.

This heals a couple of bad beat wounds I have received myself, of course, but I am still wondering about my flop play.

With $28 in my stack, $10 in the pot, $3 to call, what's your play? Opponent has about the same.

Guy.

[Fistdantilus]

In my experience, there's little need to go all-in when you have a situation like this. Raising it to a little more than the pot will get your message across, and save money if you are beat. Not only will he only call with things that beat you, but you haven't given him much of a chance to really let him define his hand. I agree that a raise is in order here, but not all-in. You're risking all of your stack to win 1/4 of your stack. =(

Fistdantilus

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree that a raise is in order here, but not all-in.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's what I realised after the event. If there were more draws on board, I think the all-in raise would be okay, since I don't want to play guessing games when a scare card comes.

So then I thought, okay, probably raise about the pot. That's $13 more, leaving only $12 in my stack. If he reraises now, it looks like I might be behind, but this is party poker... I think I have to call.

I can't think of a good amount to raise, really. Can you?

Guy.

[crockpot]

i'm shocked there's actually someone capable of making a huge underbet with a big hand. this is the first time i've seen this action from a hand that didn't want to see a cheap turn in several months.

a flop raise is definitely in order, although i'm not sure you could get away from the hand if reraised. most of the time this $3 bet will be to get a cheap card, so don't give it to him.

[mauisupaman]

What's wrong with pushing in here? If you call the bet and raise the pot thats already almost %50 of your stack. So why not push it?

[Redhot_man]

at some point in this hand you are going to have to put your entire stack into the middle. There is no way you can fodl this hadn at any point. I thinik the correct move is to raise to $10 and then dump the other $15 in on the turn.

[TheGrifter]

Even though this is party poker and TPTK will beat many many hands people will call all in with I do believe you can get away from this hand on the flop.

The problem in this hand is that you don't really have much information except that an apparently tight player raised before the flop and underbet the pot after the flop. That smells like a trap to me but to be sure I would probably raise to about 9 dollars, if he goes all in fold because you are probably beat, if he calls then you probably have to push on the turn when the second ace falls, but at least you wouldn't be quite as far behind when the money goes in the pot.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
He pauses for some time and eventually bets $3. I completely misread this as a pocket pair that hates the overcard(s) on the flop or AQ that missed; perhaps AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is your read, then why would you EVER want to raise?!?!?! The thinking "I have him beat, so I'll raise" is completely wrong, especially in no-limit.

If you raise, this guy gets away from any pocket pair that isn't KK, JJ or 44, and he can also safely dump AQ and AJ. Yet, against all of those hands, you are an ENORMOUS favorite. You have to fade, at most, three outs on the turn and the river.

With the small stacks at Party, you'll be losing everything in front of you if you're behind. But with the way you played it, you will win the absolute minimum if you're ahead (unless he is a donkey, which we're assuming he isn't).

I say call and let him hang himself by continuing to fire at the pot. I think this is undoubtedly the right play on the flop. Then, depending on what falls on the turn, you can decide whether to call or make a raise. Likewise on the river.

[Redhot_man]

[ QUOTE ]
Even though this is party poker and TPTK will beat many many hands people will call all in with I do believe you can get away from this hand on the flop.

The problem in this hand is that you don't really have much information except that an apparently tight player raised before the flop and underbet the pot after the flop. That smells like a trap to me but to be sure I would probably raise to about 9 dollars, if he goes all in fold because you are probably beat, if he calls then you probably have to push on the turn when the second ace falls, but at least you wouldn't be quite as far behind when the money goes in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you know are going to have to eventually get it all in either way, why wait? This way you know for sure that he is getting the worst posible drawing odd.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

If this is your read, then why would you EVER want to raise?


[/ QUOTE ]

Because I'm an idiot, like it said in the original post.

You're right of course. This is starting to look like quite a poor raise: draws are unlikely given the board and action, so if I'm ahead I am a long way ahead and more likely to be bet into again than called.

Factoring in the stack/pot sizes, the proper play is almost certainly to call on the flop and move in on the turn.

Guy.