stud/8, pushing a rolled up hand

[Cooling Heels]

How hard would you push a rolled up hands in the face
of adversity? The game is 4/8 stud/8, $2 bring-in, .50
ante, $5.50 rake. The relevant players are Obvious Low (OL),
Long Term Chip Burner (LTCB), and our Hero. Suits not relevant
as both opponents developed rainbow boards.

**** 3rd street ********

Hero raises with trip 5's in early position, OL and LTCB call,
bring-in folds

OL (XX) 7
LTCB (XX) J
Hero (55) 5

**** 4th street ********

OL (XX) 7 2
LTCB (XX) J 8
Hero (55) 5 Q

Would have preferred a low card to disguise my hand, but that's the way
they fall, Hero bets, both guys call

**** 5th street ********


OL (XX) 7 2 6
LTCB (XX) J 8 2
Hero (55) 5 Q K

Hero bets, OL raises, LTCB squirms, betting capped. OL appears to have half
the pot locked up, wish I had his hand instead of trips.

**** 6th street ********

OL (XX) 7 2 6 Q
LTCB (XX) J 8 2 9
Hero (55) 5 Q K 3

No help yet, case 5 still live, Hero bets, OL raises, LTCB re-raises ???,
betting capped, monster pot. Marvelous, what could LTCB have, trip 9's,
hit an inside str8? I hate trips in stud/8.

**** 7th street ********

OL (XX) 7 2 6 Q (X)
LTCB (XX) J 8 2 9 (X)
Hero (55) 5 Q K 3 (Q)

Much better, rivered a boat, Hero bets, OL raises, LTCB re-raises,
betting capped.

What could LTCB have?

Should I have played any streets differently?

[Elizabeth]

If he has trip 9s on 6th, then that means he called a capped pot on 5th with (99)J82 - just 1 medium pair, no chance for low, and no real draw. He squirmed while calling, which means he wanted to fold but couldn't. Nines ought to be an easy fold in this spot, but people get emotionally attached to straight and flush draws - they are hopeful to make a big hand. With the big pot, I think LTCB got strung along with a gutshot (which got there). What else could he have? Considering that he knew he was beaten on 5th, and the 9 helped his hand enough for him to cap the betting, I don't see another possible hand.

I don't think you could have done anything else differently. Because the low's chances on scooping pretty much depend on him picking up the case 5, capping is low-risk. You took that opportunity to squeeze a draw for multiple bets when you were ahead. I don't know in general how much you want to push low trips, but I don't think you need to know. In this case the situation looks right.

[Andy B]

I don't see any point at which you can fold.

[Cooling Heels]

"I don't see any point at which you can fold. "

If I hadn't of boated on 7th, a fold would have been
tempting. LTCB usually plays 3/6 stud and he drastically
overplays high hands in stud/8, my read on his hand was
correct. Monster pot tho, hard to fold with the slim chance he was poorly playing two pair.

OL displayed a 7 low on showdown, no surprise there, he squeezed
the most out of a good situation. LTCB displayed a (99) J 8 2 9 (J)
to capture a half of a huge pot. It's hard to imagine calling a completed
bet with (99) J; he probably assumed his high hand was up against two
low draws. He looked very uncomfortable on 5th, the look of a player
wishing he wasn't in the pot, so I enjoyed the betting at this stage.
My take on his hand, jacks up, a lousy position to be in. Turned out his
hand was even worse.

This guy typically checks and calls, rarely bets or raises, so when he
re-raised I knew the hand was falling apart. My cards and betting
represented pocket aces, trip 5's, or a poorly played busted low,
so he had me trapped. Trips are very expensive to lose with, just
like straight stud.

PS, hope you did well Andy after moving to my seat when I
left Friday night. It was a good seat, picked up a
respectable $2.50 in 5 hours of play, better not quit
my day job. I would have left earlier as I was falling
asleep, but the player in seat 2, who was playing a
reasonable game and ahead at 8PM, was on full blown tilt
at 11PM. Not that any went into my stack.

[Andy B]

You were in the three seat? *You're* "Cooling Heels"? I've always envisioned "Cooling Heels" as being somewhat younger. Not that there are a lot of young kids playing in the split pot games at CP.

And you've never introduced yourself?

Friday night is a bit of a blur because I played for about 15 hours--didn't leave until 10 am Saturday. I won a little in the high-low game, found a very good $6/12 HE game and won a little more. The $8/16 HE game next door was going down to two-handed, and I just can't resist short-handed hold'em, so I went over there and picked up a little more. I started losing interest when the game filled up in the morning. I picked up $400+ for the night.

I'm not sure when all of these hands happened in relation to your departure, but I had three different hands where I had a flush and a six-low, and I chopped one of those three pots, getting shut out in the other two.

Brutal hand. If he's as weak as you say (maybe you could tell me who it was privately or something), maybe you can fold after the three-bet on the river. I probably pay it off, though. Maybe he thought his straight was good [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Cooling Heels]

"Not that there are a lot of young kids playing in the split pot games at CP."

I play the 4/8 game about once a month, and sometimes
I'm the yougest player. O8 is even more extreme, Earl is
about my age, but the other guys are all collecting SS.
Actually 3/6 and 6/12 stud aren't all that different,
the sunglasses and Matt Damon fans all play HE. Wonder what
kind of marketing CP could do to attract younger players
to their stud games?

A end game strategy hand similiar to the hand that started this thread came up Friday,
lucky for me I had the low end
this time. I made a low on 5th and led the betting. Seat
2 paired his doorcard, a 9, and came out betting. Seat
1, have drawn his 3 card to a suit on 6th, re-raised. The
pot was capped, seat 2 calling but not raising. Likely
hands, trips 9's and a flush. On 7th, seat 2 came out
betting, seat 1 called 2 bets but folded to 4 bets. Tough
fold with a big pot, but he saved 3 bets as seat 2 showed
a boat. The 4 raise limit at CP makes playing 3 handed
split pot hands tough.

[banditbdl]

I'm a youngster (21) playing stud at Canterbury, but one of few. I've noticed the stud games have really been hurting since the 2 weeks or so when the Holdem jackpot stayed over a hundred grand. Even now that the jackpot is back to more reasonable levels the stud games are still a lot more sparse than before. I think if they changed the jackpot structure (say four 7s or better beaten) so it got into the the 30-40 thousand dollar range occasionally it would attract more players looking for a jackpot, but I'm not sure I'd really want to play in a game with them or not.

[Andy B]

At 35, I am frequently the youngest person in the game when I'm playing anything other than hold'em. Canterbury Park doesn't want to attract younger players to their stud games. Hold'em is where they make the most money, and that's what they want everybody to play. Eventually, all of the stud players will die of old age and there will only be hold'em games.

I was the oldest player in a five-handed $30/60 hold'em game. Thinking back on who was in that game, I don't know what I was doing in there.

I remember the hand from Friday, sort of, and given the action, seat 1 could almost have folded for the first two bets. I like the five-bet cap. Try it at $30/60, where the players are much more aggressive and have no regard for money. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

[Andy B]

The hold'em jackpot was $84k when it went out at 2:00 am Saturday, so it's now back down to a more reasonable number. On the other hand, the stud jackpot also went out on Friday night, so it was $1334, which is pretty close to the theoretical minimum of $1200. Hold'em will almost always have the bigger jackpots and more action, so I think that's where players will always be drawn. CP has no interest in promoting the other games, because they don't get in as many hands per hour. I would love to see them do an add-on for the stud jackpot just once.

You want to play with jackpot-oriented people. Never forget this. Unless you're playing $15/30. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]