Hyptothetcial SNG situation - Ethics Question

[augie00]

Let's say you are down to 3 players, ITM. The players are the hero, a complete idiot, and a known and skillful player. This is a normal SNG, 100/200 blinds, and you have a large chip lead. Let's assume the stacks are as follows:

Hero: 7000
Idiot: 1500
Good Player: 1500

Idiot moves all in from button, good player folds, you have 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Would it be unethical to call, hoping to double up the idiot, giving you a better chance of playing him heads up rather than the skillful player?

You do not know the idiot personally, have never played with him before, and will try to beat him badly when it gets to heads up.

I am not interested in the strategy aspect of this question, but rather the ethics question.

[steaknshake925]

i think its completely ethical and normal

[Bigwig]

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I am not interested in the strategy aspect of this question,

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Good, because that strategy is super dumb.

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but rather the ethics question.

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It's not unethical.

[DasLeben]

The hell with ethics. Not that I would intentially double the bad player here, but if I had a chance to ensure I'd get HU with the donk and bust the skillful player in 3rd, I'd do it and say "THX 4 UR $$$."

[citanul]

nothing unethical at all. you believe you're doing something that is +ev for you, and you're not doing something different based on anything that is not related to the play of poker.

citanul's rule of poker ethics:

if all it is is [censored] a guy out of money by playing poker, it can't be unethical.

if you mix in any non poker thing, like say, telling the guy before he pushes that you have 23 and want to double him up, that's unethical.

citanul

[Meatmaw]

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if you mix in any non poker thing, like say, telling the guy before he pushes that you have 23 and want to double him up, that's unethical.

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Does that imply any table talk is unethical? I have trouble differentiating the cases where you say "Call, I have 23 and want to double you up" to induce:

1) a call b/c you have AA
2) a call b/c you have 23o and want to double him up.
3) a fold b/c you have 23o and want to psyche him out
4) a call b/c you have AA and want to make him think you have 23o but are trying to make him think you have AA.
etc.

Along these lines, I have trouble differentiating a spoken play like this from saying things like "Come on, call me." to egg someone on or vice versa. I don't see how one can necessarily determine collusion from this w/o establishing a pattern of it over an extended number of hands.

So, I can see an argument to ban all table talk and chat etc, but I'm not clear how this would necessarily be illegal or unethical or against the rules any more than "Go ahead, call me. I have AA." taunting.

Thoughts?

[The Yugoslavian]

How is this an ethics question?!?!?! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Hell, you can do whatever you want during an STT...even stand up and urinate on the table if you gottabit of Fillmaff in ya....just don't explicitely collude with other players at the table.

Implicit collusion (which this isn't, btw) is always fine and 'ethical,' however you're using that word.

However, in general your solution to all ethical questions concerning poker should be to find a hot, skanky, sort of fat (b/c fat chicks need love too, right?) chick who won't break the sex chair...and then put it to good use. All of your poker dilemmas and/or life's mysterys will be solved following this advice.

Yugoslav
PS...the strategy involved in your above post is like.....umm....it makes the sex chair cry, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

[citanul]

there are rules governing table talk. therefor, table talk may or may not be "ethical or unethical" but the rules of the game are there to tell you if it is "illegal or legal."

[Ogre]

Its not unethical, its just horrible stategy

[augie00]

I am well aware that it is horrible. I was just curious if you guys thought that "teaming up" against another player by making a completley incorrect decision against the other is unethical.