Another maniac story.

[Joe Tall]

I haven't posted a hand in a while and Jeffro's maniac story reminded me of a crazy hand against a maniac that I have archived the history.

Story: We have a Full-Blow-Tilt maniac. He has raised, at least 10 hands in a row, however, the last 3 hands he lost with legit hands, due to the fact that everyone was jumping in with him and sucking out.

He has also dwindled his stack down to about $100 after having it near $300, this is a 2/4 game online.

I'm in the BB with 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] this is the only time I've ever played this hand in my life, to this date.

Two limps to the maniac in MP and he...you guessed it, raises, MP2 3 bets, CO and Button cold-call, SB calls, and I decided, screw it, I'll see the flop fit-or-fold - CALL.

EP limpers call - we have a monster pot here ladies and gentlemen, and guess what, the Maniac caps it - all call.

the suspense builds...8 to the flop for 32 SBs

Flop: 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

Check to the loose cannon who bets, MP2 raises, now, I was thinking that MP2 has AK but maybe KK, all fold to me and I decide to 3-bet (over-agressive?) to see if MP2 has KK...EPs fold and I don't find out anything because of a blast across the deck as the maniac caps it!

Turn: 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] [7 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] ]

Oh no, there is the flush but the pot is so big I have to see the river (right?)

Maniac bets, MP2 raises, I cold call and maniac re-raises, MP2 caps, I cold-call again. (am I nuts?)

Suddenly it was like standing in the middle of a hurricane, where the sun shines and there is no wind...

Turn: 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] [9 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] ]

Maniac bets MP2 raises, I 3 bet, maniac calls, MP2 caps (and then the hurricane moves through and wind starts to go the other way.)...oh no, he has KK and I'm done.

I call.

The storm has settled...the Maniac picks up the glass off his front stoop and shows
A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] ! The sun is shining on my house now as MP2 turns over A [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] . As the verbal rocks try to shatter my full-house. I take it down.

[Barry]

That is quite a hand. I'm sure that I would have watched it from the sidelines and then cried at the end.

The gnashing of teeth and fists through monitors must have been audible as the maniac's stack dwindles to $50 and yours goes up by $130.

[Joe Tall]

I could hear the smashing from miles away...do you think I was nuts double-cold-calling without knowing if there was KK out there?? I could have been drawing dead waiting for the board to pair, and this was going through my head, but with the pot so big, I called it down to the river.

Barry, the funny thing was just after the hand, I looked at the Maniacs stack and it read: $550 !! He instantly re-bought!!
Unfortunately, I couldn't catch another hand and he only lost $50 more before coming to his senses and leaving the table.

[Barry]

Let's see..., these calculations are not my strong suit, perhaps 1 of our math experts can do this precisely.

I think that you have to assume that the turn will be capped and you will need to pay 4BB, not just the 2 in your 1st cold call.

Let's also assume the most optimistic scenario that your outs are all clean and the river betting will be capped.
So 4x you will win the $120 in the pot ($88 after the flop plus the $32 put in by the other players on the turn) plus the $32 put in by the other players on the river for a total of $152. 42x you will lose your $16.

So 4 x $152 = $608 and -$16 x 42 = -$672. $608 - $672= -$64. $64 / 46 give you a neg EV of $1.39. If your outs aren't clean and you cannot expect a capped river, it's worse still.

So IMO the 1st cold call on the turn was wrong, but having made it, you should make the 2nd.

[Bob T.]

1) You should probably consider playing 75 suited on the button, for a single bet, in multiway pots, and certainly in the small blind for a half bet.

2) You shouldn't coldcall in the blinds with it.

3) I think you were on a little tilt here, but it sure worked out in your favor. Who do you think they told stories about later - AK suited overplayed, AQ suited, or 75 suited way overplayed?

[Joe Tall]

Bob,

1. How many limpers would you need to call with 75s on the button??

2. As it stood coming into me we had 16 SBs so I called 2 cold getting 8-1, and I was damn sure the 2 EPs would come along, so an implied 18 bets, getting 9-1, once it was capped, it's all mute, everyone will call. I know I'm in terrible position but it was going to be fit-or-fold with such a hand. However, don't get me wrong, the crazy-action made my eyes light up!

3. The MP with the flush was pissed, the maniac comments were being ingnored from the start, he set himself up with the last 10 hands he played. I'm sure they told stories about it, but I'd do it again with the same action.

[JTG51]

Wow, that's one heck of a hand!

I agree with Bob T, I think you have a fold preflop.

Unless I knew MP2 was a full blown maniac also, I think I'd have a hard time making it to the river with this hand. Then again, I'd probably kill myself if I folded and saw the results.

[Joe Tall]

I believe in your maniac post you were also getting 8-1 with your call...as the same in mine, but yes, my eyes explode with all the action. And yes, this guy was a Full Blow Tilt, Loose Cannon, Needs a Cold Shower, Maniac (FBTLCNCSM)!!

err, I missread your reply,MP2 was a straight forward player, but I couldn't get a read on him with the maniac between us in this hand.

[Bob T.]

1. How many limpers would you need to call with 75s on the button??

4 or 5, The thing you have to remember about the button, or the cutoff, if you have the button, is that if a bet comes from early position, you really have all the money that gets bet preflop, and sometimes on the flop in there, before you have to make your second decision. So when there are 5 limpers, and you limp, you could be facing a decision on the flop, where you are getting 11, or 12 to 1 to make then next call. With even a gutshot, you are already +ev, calling a flop bet. With a gutshot, and a backdoor flush draw, even better. With a hand like 75 suited, you would probably rather make a backdoor flush, because if you make it early, then a large single card of your suit is drawing live against you, but the other two card draws might have been eliminated on the flop, if that was there only outs.

2. As it stood coming into me we had 16 SBs so I called 2 cold getting 8-1, and I was damn sure the 2 EPs would come along, so an implied 18 bets, getting 9-1, once it was capped, it's all mute, everyone will call. I know I'm in terrible position but it was going to be fit-or-fold with such a hand. However, don't get me wrong, the crazy-action made my eyes light up!


Maybe you should have anticipated the preflop cap, you aren't playing under normal conditions here, so you should probably be figuring more like 3 to 24 on your preflop call. It certainly isn't the worst call ever, but I think that the action is certainly going to destroy your implied odds, on a hand that you clearly have to hit hard to win.

But you did hit it hard. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]