Advice on 2 Bubble Hand Histories please

[stevetee]

Hi, I've been playing for about 9 months now and still learning to balance aggression vs timid play. I'd value others input on these 2 hand histories that were almost back to back from last night, and that saw me exit in 4th place on both occasions in party $30 sit'n'gos. I'm quite sure the 2nd one was bad play by me.
Thanks
Steve

(Histories edited to protect the guilty !)

NL Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee
(Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 4: ME ( $1050 )
Seat 8: opp1 ( $485 )
Seat 9: opp2 ( $4965 )
Seat 3: opp3 ( $1500 )
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ Js As ]
ME is all-In [1050]
opp1 folds.
opp2 calls [1050].
opp3 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, 8s, 4c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
ME shows [ Js, As ] a pair of aces.
opp2 shows [ Kc, Ad ] a pair of aces.
ME finished in fourth place.
opp2 wins 2300 chips from the main pot with a pair of aces with king kicker.



NL Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee
(Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: opp1 ( $712 )
Seat 9: opp2 ( $4598 )
Seat 10: ME ( $1706 )
Seat 8: opp3 ( $984 )
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ 8c 8h ]
ME is all-In [1706]
opp1 folds.
opp3 folds.
opp2 calls [1506].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, 3s, 6d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
ME shows [ 8c, 8h ] a pair of eights.
opp2 shows [ Ad, Qh ] a pair of queens.
ME finished in fourth place.
opp2 wins 3512 chips from the main pot with a pair of queens.

[K C]

Hand 1: Do you really want to go all in here? Put yourself in the shoes of the guy with $400. He's happier than hell to see this, and now he gets paid instead of you. You need to be more careful in early position with your all-ins. You can end up against a bigger stack like this, he could have a better PF hand, or call you and get lucky and put you out that way.

Hand 2: Deja vu, except there's 2 players who are real happy about this. In second place you don't want to be going out like this if you can help it at all.

IMO, you need to tone down your aggression in these situations, and not put yourself at so much risk of going out 4th. But you probably already know that anyway. The goal in these situations is to make sure you get paid first and foremost.

Good luck
KC
http://kingcobrapoker.com

[El Maximo]

This first one is standard. I think you know this. You may have been questioning pushing this from UTG on the bubble with such a short-stack still in it. That short-stack may double up and your not getting called except by a premium hand. It happened. Move on. The 2nd hand is a little dicier. Ive seen 2 recent posts about similiar hands that got a lot of discussion. Both posts were about pushing medium pairs UTG with big stack left to act and 2 other shorter stacks still in it. You have less than 10BB but you aren't in real danger. Im leaning towards the raise to 500 (2.5xBB) and call a reraise from big stack if one of the other stacks comes along. I dont think a push is a bad play here and I think alot of 2+2ers would push also.

[emil3000]

Yes, yes, push both. You bust out in fourth occasionally, that's poker.

[TMFS9]

Both hands are a tough bubble situations. The first hand i agree that pushing is probably the best play with a greater possibility of getting called by a hand that you dominate versus a hand that dominates you.

As far as the second hand, With the big stack being the big blind and you pushing all in, unless either of the short stacks have a monster hand they won't call hoping you get knocked out by the big stack. The most likely holding that the big stack will call your push would be two overs. Now I feel that this situation is the prototypical passing on a slightly positive ev situation for a better ev situation in the future if you think you are the best player. I feel that folding would be extremely weak tight. One possible line you could take would be to limp or min raise (one of the only situations where i think a min raise could be correct) call a push by either of the short stacks and fold to a push by the big stack, you would still have a decent amount of chips left if you folded preflop. If you had a chance to see the flop it would be an automatic push if the flop came under you.

[stevetee]

Firstly, thanks all for the replies.

I came to my own conclusion that pushing was "probably" correct in scenario 1. So I kind of feel it was just bad luck that I went out.

In scenario 2 it does appear I played the hand bad. One for the notebook for the future I guess.

Thanks again.

Steve

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
NL Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee
(Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 4: ME ( $1050 )
Seat 8: opp1 ( $485 )
Seat 9: opp2 ( $4965 )
Seat 3: opp3 ( $1500 )
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ Js As ]
ME is all-In [1050]
opp1 folds.
opp2 calls [1050].
opp3 folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

This doesnt make any sense. If seat 9 is the button then seat 4 would be the BB.(Thats you) The HH does not fit right .

[ QUOTE ]
NL Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee
(Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: opp1 ( $712 )
Seat 9: opp2 ( $4598 )
Seat 10: ME ( $1706 )
Seat 8: opp3 ( $984 )
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ 8c 8h ]
ME is all-In [1706]
opp1 folds.
opp3 folds.
opp2 calls [1506].


[/ QUOTE ]

What am I missing here? This one has you in the BB again.


If I am not crazy then you are the BB in both of these hands, so what was the action before it got to you?