It is forever impossible to get rid of bots

[loic]

Disclaimer: I do not favor bots, I do not develop bots, I won't
be happy if there are more bots than humans in online poker rooms.

From a technical point of view, no poker client will ever be able to
detect a bot that analyzes the window layout (to find cards, bet
amounts, player names etc). It could attempt this detection when the
bot runs on the same machine although it is likely to require frequent
updates (think anti-virus software). However, if the bot runs on
another machine and watches the display remotely, it is just
impossible (VNC is a example software that watches a display from a
remote machine).

From a legal point of view, international and national laws in most
countries (+200 of them, including US and all Europe) strongly
protects interoperability between programs. It means that the author
of a program whose sole purpose is to encode/decode the protocols or
file formats used by another program can never be sued on this basis.

Online poker rooms can forbid the use of any computerized assistance
(except the mouse, the screen and the operating system ;-) in the
terms and conditions that each player accepts when registering. A
contract is a powerful tool to attempt to force people to forfeit
rights that cannot be taken from them. Although the poker room may win
a lawsuit against a player using a bot that plays on his behalf, there
are more cases where they would lose.

For instance, if my only machine is running GNU/Linux, the court may
rule that I'm entitled to use my own client because there does not
exist a client except for Windows. Ruling otherwise would mean that
the poker room can force me to become a Microsoft customer. A real
world poker room can force you to wear a tie but cannot force you to
wear a tie of a given brand. This can have precedence over contract
terms and conditions. Furthermore, the features provided by my client
software (such as automated play or statistics gathering) cannot be
restricted by contract. No matter what is written, no third party can
legitimately control or restrict the software you run on your own
machine. If that was the case, no doubt a large software publisher
would state in its operating system license contract that all software
running on top of it must be purchased from them.

Summary:

. Bots can't be detected.

. Bots can't be outlawed.

. Poker room terms and conditions are inefficient to forbid bot
usage.

Will there ever be a widely spread bot able to beat most players
currently playing in online poker rooms ? I think so. It may already
exist but is kept secret. It's only a matter of time before a talented
poker player who also happens to be a good developer decides she or he
wants to be remembered as the author of the first bot that changed
online poker forever.

[Wake up CALL]

I suggest you do three things:

1) Get a law degree
2) Become a software Engineer
3) Get back to us in 8 years and retract your above statements

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
It's only a matter of time before a talented
poker player who also happens to be a good developer decides she or he wants to be remembered as the author of the first bot that changed online poker forever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or more likely a decent poker player with a good understanding of game theory, and reasonable programming skills will get greedy and destroy online poker forever.

[fnurt]

As a lawyer, I can safely say the idea that you have some legal right to cheat at poker is absurd.

[JAque]

What about buying a franchise from Russ G in RPG "boiler room setup" for $10,000.

JAque

[loic]

And I very much agree that cheating at poker is not a right. My point is that a bot is not cheating in any way. I exclude the case of bots specifically designed to break into the poker room (to read opponent cards for instance). The later is not lawfull and both the author of the bot and its user would be outlaw. I also exclude the use of bots for team play.

As long as a bot talks to the poker room in the same way a the official client does, it is not cheating. It is playing fairly on your behalf.

Let me explain this in another way. In every official poker clients there are some computerized assistance that help you play. The window pops when your turn comes, you can schedule your action in advance and some of them display the value of your hand. If, in addition you could tell it to automatically fold pre-flop unless you hold a given set of cards, would it be cheating ? Most people would say no. If, in addition you could ask it to display the pot odds or per player statistics, in the same way a software like poker tracker does, would it be cheating ? Most on line poker pro use such tools and are not ashamed of them.

If you pile all these computerized help to a point where 99% of the time your only role as a human being is to click on the right button in accordance to the advices given to you, one could hardly claim that writing a software that merely does the click for you is cheating.

[loic]

I happen to be a 39 years old developer. I'm not a lawyer but I was involved in the making of European and French law as an expert advisor to my government during the past two years.

[ohgeetee]

[ QUOTE ]
Summary:

. Bots can't be detected.

. Bots can't be outlawed.

. Poker room terms and conditions are inefficient to forbid bot
usage.

[/ QUOTE ]

you missed

. Bots aren't even close to being able to beat human players.

I don't forsee a bot being developed to even break even within ten years. Remember, automated program != automated bankroll. I'd want more bots online, thats easy money.

[fnurt]

You are piling one leap of logic on top of another and using them to reach an absurd conclusion.

The site has every right to contractually forbid you from using any software to play other than their own client. You don't have some "right" to design your own client just because you run Linux.

[loic]

I agree with you in general. However, I'm under the impression that a bot such as the one currently released by UAlberta could beat most low limit players. These bots would be fish to you but sharks to them. Do you have a different feeling ?

I would love to think that creating a bot that beats 80% of the online player population is not an event to be feared. But there are so many weak players that I'm unsure.