What was the point of my post?

Mr. Curious · #1 10-03-2005, 04:45 PM

I have found the responses to one of my No Limit posts quite interesting:

SSNL: Do you take the coin flip?

I am curious as to why you all think I posted the question that I did.

mosquito · #2 10-04-2005, 05:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have found the responses to one of my No Limit posts quite interesting:

SSNL: Do you take the coin flip?

I am curious as to why you all think I posted the question that I did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you want to see how many people like to gamb001.
Depending on the size of a bb and the amount of rake, it's
essentially a waste of time.

Sure, there is image. Putting AK on tilt if he loses could
be worth lots. Loosening up the game has potential value.

All the potential benefit is psychologically oriented, I
suppose that is your point.

mosquito · #3 10-04-2005, 09:08 AM

One more point, I didn't read many of the responses, but a valid reason for taking the coinflip would be that UTG is likely to lose the money back into the game if he wins this hand. A strong player who is likely to cash it out as part of his win is a different matter. Although, from the premise of the OP I would suspect you'd get a chance to win the money back if you lost this pot.

This by itself is probably enough to take the coinflip, assuming you have the proper BR and so on, regardless of any psych advantages.

Mr. Curious · #4 10-04-2005, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have found the responses to one of my No Limit posts quite interesting:

SSNL: Do you take the coin flip?

I am curious as to why you all think I posted the question that I did.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reasons I made the post:

#1 I am a beginner and continuously question whether or not I am making the correct decisions. I am always trying to get my money in when I think that it is a +EV situation and having lost these kinds of hands a couple of times, I am wondering if I should continue to push small edges like this one in a no limit game.

#2 I was curious how many people would take this "coin flip"? I think there is too much autopilot play and a lot of the advice on the forum follows this trend.

#3 I was curious about people's reaction to the post. The question was very basic, so did people take the time to read the post, understand the question it asked, and review all of the responses to understand why the correct play was actually correct?

#4 What was the response of the people who I consider "winning" players and was their thought process similar to mine?

bernie · #5 10-04-2005, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You are sitting at a cash game with a 100xBB stack.

UTG has gone all in for 100xBB.

It is folded to you on the button with 55.

You know two things:

#1 You have a tell on UTG that is 100% reliable and says that he holds AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't take this, you probably shouldn't be playing N/L holdem.

[ QUOTE ]
#2 I was curious how many people would take this "coin flip"? I think there is too much autopilot play and a lot of the advice on the forum follows this trend.

[/ QUOTE ]

The way you presented it, it is an autopilot call.

[ QUOTE ]
I am always trying to get my money in when I think that it is a +EV situation and having lost these kinds of hands a couple of times, I am wondering if I should continue to push small edges like this one in a no limit game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are letting past results affect your play. Time to stop.

b

jjacky · #6 10-04-2005, 07:16 PM

my interpretation: is an EV of 4 - 5 BB worth a significant variance increase?

off topic... my anser: sure! i dislike variance, but to increase the EV is the (or to be more precise: my) goal.

mosquito · #7 10-04-2005, 11:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
my interpretation: is an EV of 4 - 5 BB worth a significant variance increase?

off topic... my anser: sure! i dislike variance, but to increase the EV is the (or to be more precise: my) goal.

[/ QUOTE ]

At $50 BB, the rake is insignificant and the all-in must be
made.

At $0.25 BB, a $3 rake will screw you. Not worth it IMO.

Without knowing the size of the BB relative to the rake,
answering the question is a bit fuzzy.

Mr. Curious · #8 10-05-2005, 12:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Without knowing the size of the BB relative to the rake,
answering the question is a bit fuzzy.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a good point made by many posters. The rake does have an impact on the decision and I did not think about that aspect when I made the post because I was trying to make the question as cut and dry as possible. And of course, since I play in live games, the blinds are high enough that they more than compensate for the rake.

Mr. Curious · #9 10-05-2005, 12:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
#2 I was curious how many people would take this "coin flip"? I think there is too much autopilot play and a lot of the advice on the forum follows this trend.

[/ QUOTE ]

The way you presented it, it is an autopilot call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think that it was an autopilot call because it relied on an understanding of how an opponent plays (the tell), plus the edge was so small that many ignore it during play or wait for a bigger edge.

The poll results support this in that 1/3 of the responders would not call! I can understand some people's view of trying to avoid high variance swings, but I do not think that that was the reason why so many people did not call.

#10 10-05-2005, 01:09 PM

I think the main reason you make this post is that the edge is so small that you are wondering if it is actually worth it to call.

(Most of the games I play in are session fee, so rake would have no impact, and the blinds add even more to my expectation.)

I honestly believe that the results are do to the unwillingness to gamble with such a small edge. With the people that have been playing long enough to understand that a little bit of expectation can go a long way will be more likely to make this call. Also, I think that players who have not been playing long will answer according to their amount of success or failure in this particular situation. Two years ago I would have folded this. Today I call, please.