Calling the flop with middle pair.

parappa · #1 02-22-2005, 09:24 PM

Upon reflection, the flop call seems obviously atrocious, but I want to talk about an error in my thinking. This is what happens when I can't decide on the flop whether I think my hand is good or not. I end up just calling. Yes, I arguably have 2.5 outs instead of 2, but I'm really calling here because I think my hand might be good.

Should I:

a) realize that when I'm wondering, it's automatically a marginal situation and fold?
b) commit myself to raising or folding? (Here I would've folded)
c) just call like I did?

This is almost certainly a leak for me. I do this once or twice a session.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, Button caps, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

River: (21 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

toss · #2 02-22-2005, 09:28 PM

I think calling the flop was the worse option. Raising is better. Folding would be best.

Entity · #3 02-22-2005, 09:30 PM

I would checkraise this flop frequently.

Turn is fine, and river I'd bet and call a raise.

Rob

Shillx · #4 02-22-2005, 09:40 PM

Heh the schooling effect worked for you fairly well on this flop, but making this call is really bad because you don't know what will happen behind you. If someone raises, you can't fold for another bet but your EV on the street as a whole will go into the tank.

Getting 22.5:1 you are looking at:

18(.0426) - 1 = - .23 SB with no raise
23(.0426) - 2 = - 1.02 SB with a raise

So if you knew that it would never get raised, this call isn't the worst thing ever (you would have to make up about 5.2 SB on the turn/river to make this call +EV) but with the chance that it will get raised, you would have to make back 23 SB (assuming it would get raised everytime)! No way this is going to happen on the turn/river.

Brad