In Deep With JTs

RacersEdge · #1 04-28-2005, 10:56 PM

An effective odds case on the turn? Do I figure on actually 20-4 odds (18 pot + 2 more on the river) that it becomes less than my 40-6 odds (2 J, 2 T,(boat) 2 Q (chop)) for the FH? But then the expected pot wouldn't be 20 - more like 16. Is there a fold here?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 raises, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB raises, BB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, SB caps, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (22 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

Perseus · #2 04-28-2005, 11:01 PM

Well on the turn you have to call or raise the first bet, and then after it is raised and three bet you have to call based on odds.

I think it is fine.

rmarotti · #3 04-29-2005, 03:53 AM

This is all fine.

Chris Dow · #4 04-29-2005, 04:00 AM

Fold the turn. I don't see how this can be fine.

rmarotti · #5 04-29-2005, 04:02 AM

Boat outs and chopping straight outs. Did you read the hand?

Chris Dow · #6 04-29-2005, 04:08 AM

Absolutely, and in this tiny pot with possibly tainted boat outs plus diminished chop potential and the possibility of the turn ending up being a raise fest this is not a profitable situation. Count the other players in the hand. You haven't even made a good two pair! Seriously this is a definite fold.

rmarotti · #7 04-29-2005, 04:11 AM

Hero's getting 8:1 then 7:1 then a bajillion to one for his 3 calls on the turn. The pot is not "tiny" at any of those points.

Chris Dow · #8 04-29-2005, 04:14 AM

You do undestand that his chop outs are worthless? Hitting a chop out is worth 1.3 bb or so? If he has to call simply to boat, he doesn't have odds. His boats can be no good. The chop does not add enough.

The Dude · #9 04-29-2005, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is all fine.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's not. Folding to the first bet on the turn is prudent. 6:1 is not proper odds for a 4-outer, and Hero very likely has less than 4 outs on average. Besides, it's going to get check-raised more than just a small % of the time, which makes your effective odds worse than 6:1. It is a common mistake among decent players to not consider the fact that they're not closing the action. This is a great example of why you need to be aware of this.

rmarotti · #10 04-29-2005, 04:43 AM

I am officially a fish.