Strategy for incredibly loose and fishy homegame

wtfsvi · #1 05-26-2005, 07:08 PM

I play in a home game with friends. Most of them really has no clue, and it is easy money (the stakes are quite low, so I could probably maintain a better hourly rate 4tabling NL$25, but it's good fun).

Couple of questions.

Sometimes I feel bad when some of the worst players are down a lot for the evening, and I start softplaying them; not taking all of their stack when I think I can and such. Is that unethical? (They are my friends, I don't want to take a lot of their money.)

Second question is strategy, about AK. Raising to a reasonable ammount (like less than 20% of stack sizes) preflop will never (so far, actually never) take down the blinds in this game. Should I stop raising preflop with AK, except for pure advertising (for which I might as well use 67s)? Raising lets me get money in the pot while ahead in most cases, but as they will call me down with any draw or middle par or better (and practically never raise me), it's kind of hard to know where I stand on a missed flop.

Third question: What hands are better to play in order to not get such a tight-ass image. (I suspect the average vpip in the game (6-handed) is about 60-70%.) Suited connectors, two and three gappers utg (lp is given) or hands like K9o in LP? I suspect the former is better than the latter since the positional advantage goes down in value when the bluffs go down in value (and the players in position generally don't know how to use it).

Oh, and we play quite short stacked. Sometimes not even 50BB. I'm planning on getting that changed though.

jkkkk · #2 05-26-2005, 07:18 PM

just play standard TAG.

if your worried about taking their money you really shouldn't be playing them.

wtfsvi · #3 05-26-2005, 07:28 PM

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just play standard TAG.

if your worried about taking their money you really shouldn't be playing them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it's good for social relations, and it's fun. But yeah, you're probably right.

jkkkk · #4 05-26-2005, 07:36 PM

i play home games as well with some good friends, most of them would fit your stereotypical super fish on party portfolio, buts its for silly small stakes and its fun so i don't worry about it too much.

Ghazban · #5 05-26-2005, 07:48 PM

If the stacks are short, AK is one of the best hands you can get. You're not raising with it to steal the blinds, you're raising because its a strong hand. If they call down with any pair and any draw, stop making continuation bets with missed big cards; just value bet their stacks away.

EMcWilliams · #6 05-26-2005, 09:11 PM

I also play in a fishy and loose home game, and it is more for entertainment then money. Anyway, I do not see anything wrong with softplaying a big loser. Whats better, the extra 3BB now or the 20BB or more hell drop when he returns. However, I feel that the big loser does need a morale booster, and I have no problem with this.

As for the wonderful hand that is AK, I will in a short stacked game raise 3-5x BB, and let them call with their A9s and such. With AK in this environment, you dont want just the blinds. However, the problem that I experence and I think that you do too is that cont. bets do not have the same effect, which is another way AK makes money. Dont worrk about it. Still play it the way you know you should, it will work out and pay you off well.

I also have the super tight ass image, and I like having it. However, if you wanna shake it, I find an interesting manner is to critize someone on playing their fish s00ted stuff, and then play with it when you get it, and hopefully show it down. Play some hands every now and then that you see the fish play, just to shake them up. The past few games ive done that and walked out up 100BB in 2 days, which is not bad for 2 3-hr homw games.

MLerra · #7 05-26-2005, 11:28 PM

Bet when you've got it, check/fold when you don't. Never continuation bet, unless people have folded to your flop bets with too much frequency in the past. I don't know precisely what TAG means (I mean REALLY means), but I don't think it's appropriate for a loose game. Playing too few hands hurts your EV.

Also, I'd rarely raise preflop. Yes you are a favorite with your AK against 67, but why get money in as a 60% favorite (or whatever) when you can get it in as an 80+% favorite? Might as well leave as little up to chance as possible.

SonOfWestwood · #8 05-26-2005, 11:34 PM

I think you have to raise AK. You have to look at it as raising because it's a strong hand. It has a significantly higher chance of winning the pot compared to the range of hands your opponents are playing so you absolutely want to build a pot with it. You want them to make the mistake of calling your raise. Post flop, I've found that you can just play straight forward "ABC" poker against players like these. Lots of value bets when you've got the goods.

I wouldn't worry too much about having a tight image. I've had a tight image with the same group of people I play cards with for a couple of years now. It still doesn't stop me from getting action. And it certainly helps when I make bluffs at pots. Frankly, I don't care what image people have of me. As long as I know what they think it is, I can use it against them.

TreyOfLight · #9 05-27-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I feel bad when some of the worst players are down a lot for the evening, and I start softplaying them; not taking all of their stack when I think I can and such. Is that unethical? (They are my friends, I don't want to take a lot of their money.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember, as a kid, sensing when I was being "allowed" to win and resenting it.

Respect for your friends requires that you allow them to make their own mistakes. Respect for the game requires you to play your best. Every time.

Outside the game, you're still friends. If you want to suggest lower stakes for next time, or call the game early and head to the bar (where you'll spring for the first round), that's a friendly thing to do. Handing them a win isn't friendly, it's condescending.

(* Someone else mentioned the metagame value of shearing the sheep instead of skinning him. The idea has merit but I reserve it for players I don't consider friends. In a similar vein, I wouldn't goad a friend into playing for higher stakes than he is comfortable with. The line between "metagame" and "life" is a little too blurry for me to be ruthless there.)

jhall23 · #10 05-27-2005, 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I feel bad when some of the worst players are down a lot for the evening, and I start softplaying them; not taking all of their stack when I think I can and such. Is that unethical? (They are my friends, I don't want to take a lot of their money.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember, as a kid, sensing when I was being "allowed" to win and resenting it.

Respect for your friends requires that you allow them to make their own mistakes. Respect for the game requires you to play your best. Every time.

Outside the game, you're still friends. If you want to suggest lower stakes for next time, or call the game early and head to the bar (where you'll spring for the first round), that's a friendly thing to do. Handing them a win isn't friendly, it's condescending.

(* Someone else mentioned the metagame value of shearing the sheep instead of skinning him. The idea has merit but I reserve it for players I don't consider friends. In a similar vein, I wouldn't goad a friend into playing for higher stakes than he is comfortable with. The line between "metagame" and "life" is a little too blurry for me to be ruthless there.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, just try not to take the game too seriously all the time if others aren't if the money doesn't mean much to you. Experiment by looseninng up some, playing crazy LAG just for fun. If you donate some who care's it keeps the game more fun for everyone.