7 stud, high-low, with a declare

[Wynton]

Does anyone have any advice -- or a resource -- that discusses strategies for playing 7 stud, high-low, when there is a declare round? None of the books I know discuss this, evidently because the game is not played that way in casinos. But most homes I know elect to have a declaration round. Even the most general advice on this topic would be appreciated.

[bugstud]

"always play for the low"

pretty much the only advice you need, play for a low and back into scoops.

[MRBAA]

I think he's asking for advice specifically on declare. Thursday Night Poker by Peter Steiner is all about home games and does discuss this as I recall. One thing I've found important in low stakes home games is that if you can read other players it can be worth staying in with not great holdings to see if you can steal on the declare (no one goes your way) or catch someone else with an even worse hand and the same idea. Typically, these games are loose so you may have six people in the pot for many bets. You only have to sneak in with your two-pair high against three battling lows occaisonally to to make this profitable.

[bugstud]

Good point. The hands you will gain the most in deception are 3 flushes like (A2) K/Q/J and buried small pairs with a small upcard. As an example, playing (22)5, hitting an 8 then a 2, your jamming could knock out low hands that bricked and scooping. So, to keep it quick, play hands that are really hidden or that go both ways, especially if there's a juicy post-declare betting round.

[crockpot]

there is a short section on declare at the end of sklansky's high-low split book in super/system.

the book also mentions that david was working on an entire book devoted to the game. was this ever released?

[Graham]

the book also mentions that david was working on an entire book devoted to the game. was this ever released?

Nope, not to my knowledge, and I'm a bit of a poker book junkie. The section in SS is pretty good though. I suspect no qualifier for most home games. Well worth getting SS just to read that section if you have a home game that plays it - get your money back in no time from it.

That game is my all-time favourite to call in home games.

[Andy B]

Steiner's book does have a pretty good section on high-low declare. Sklansky's brief treatment in S/S is excellent. Albert Morehead has a pretty good section on the game in The Complete Guide to Winning Poker. Morehead died in 1967 or so, and his book may or may not be in print. I purchased it new in 1995, and a lot of older gambling books are being reprinted these days (Biggest Game in Town, Sucker's Progress, etc.). I think that Steiner is a little too loose and Morehead a little too tight.

"Always play for low" should be tempered a bit. When playing high-low split with no qualifier and no declaration, you should basically only play for low unless you're rolled-up, and even there it isn't automatic. If you have rolled-up Kings in a heads-up pot, the other guy is free-rolling against you, no matter what his hand is! Once there are more players in, you gain equity, but low hands are king in that game. When you add a declaration, the low hands still have an advantage, but if they want to go after the high side of the pot, they must risk the entire low side of the pot to do so. I don't think that hands like split Kings are playable in high-low declare (I think Steiner does), but I played them anyway back in my fifty-cent home game days. Hands got exposed all the time (beer flowed pretty freely at these games), and if someone found out that Andy B mucked a pair of Kings for one bet, he might never get any action again.

[Phat Mack]

I like the Morehead book that Andy mentions. It's a pretty good introduction, and I see it all the time in used book stores.

I think the Sklansky section of SS is excellent. There is a brief section at the end that discusses declare, but read the whole article--it's all relevant. His concept of "escapes" is good, and I've never seen another author conceptualize it in quite the same way.

Irv Roddy's Wednesday Night Poker is a little bit looser than the others. It's also more difficult to find in second-hand stores, but his play-by-play illustrations are the most detailed of the bunch. He also understands the need to gamble in home games if you want to be invited back.

[Phat Mack]

In one of his poker essays, Sklansky puts forward the idea that Declare may be the most skillfull of poker games. I tend to agree. I wish it were played more. I was hoping that one of the online cardrooms would give it a try, but now I doubt that it will happen. You might try posting some sample hands here or in the other games forum. There are probably some posters here who are real experts in what may be a dying game.

[MRBAA]

Aside from social reasons, gambling in high low games makes much more sense with six players in than with three or four. Even half the pot is giving you a signficant overlay on your bets with that many in, especially since some will be in with hands that you wouldn't play even at your loosest.