qks in BB called for 3bets, too aggresive postflop??

billuhbong · #1 12-30-2004, 02:05 AM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $5.
MP folds, CO folds, Button raises, SB 3-bets, BB calls, Hero (poster) calls, Button calls. -sb is a fish

Flop: (12 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.
i decided to cap the flop for value.
Turn: (12.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, SB calls.
increased outs with my inside straight now, no point in raising..

River: (15.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.
only reason i called this fish was to see wtf he was playing and wut he 3 bet with, jkd wut i figured , not a 3 betting typa hand.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Russ McGinley · #2 12-30-2004, 02:18 AM

What do you mean too aggressive? Other than what was likely a meaningless cap on the flop you check/called the rest of the way, even on the end with your busted flush/straight. I don't see any point in calling the river "to look him up". That's just chip spewing to me. The only time you should call the river is if you are unsure of whether or not you have the best hand, not to see what he had. That's what rookies do. You are going to be beaten about 95% of the time and you are not getting those pot odds nor will you ever. I think the proper play on the flop would have been to call and try and make your hand as cheaply as possible. The turn gave you 3 more outs which is nice but not anything real special.

Harv72b · #3 12-30-2004, 02:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
only reason i called this fish was to see wtf he was playing and wut he 3 bet with, jkd wut i figured , not a 3 betting typa hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but...it cost you $50 to prove that SB didn't have a 3-betting hand. I'd just as soon give him the benefit of the doubt and fold preflop.

Once you called PF, I don't have any real problems with your flop or turn play. I liked calling 1 to begin with. When it came back to you 3-bet, you had the odds to call 2 cold but knew that it would probably be capped behind you anyway, so nothing wrong with just getting it over with. As you said, no point in raising the turn.

You must fold that river. Someone else will call SB down in the future & prove your point; I'd go so far as to say that you lose this hand 99.9% of the time.

W. Deranged · #4 12-30-2004, 02:32 AM

Two thoughts:

1. I would strongly consider folding this pre-flop. KQs is a very strong hand, but its strength comes primarily from the fact that it plays well for one-raise pre-flop and that it is flexible and can play well in multi-way pots because it offers implied odds. This is a situation where KQs does not have any of these advantages. The three-bet suggests it is very likely you are dominated. The expensive price and only two opponents mean that the speculative value of the hand also decreases. So I'd throw this away.

2. You don't have a value cap on the flop. You absolutely can't count your kings and queens as outs (at best, you maybe can count them for a total of 1 or 2 outs... maybe). So you maybe have a total of 10 outs (and there is a definite possibility of redraws, if the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is out or if there is a set out or something). As I figure it, your equity here will almost never be significantly above 33% (10 outs=40%-redraws...), so capping here is probably -EV most of the time.

Malcom Reynolds · #5 12-30-2004, 02:32 AM

Super easy fold preflop, super easy fold river.