How can I crack low limit Hold Em?

[Nemo]

Hey everyone, name's Nemo and I just got into Hold 'Em a while ago. I studied a lot and played a bit of online and using some software and felt my game was pretty sharp. So I headed to an Indian Casino today and sat down 3/6. I played tight, rarely seeing the flop. I saw it a couple times and didn't like it and folded, then two specific times I liked it, bet hard, and won at the showdown. However, I only finished up $4 after a 2.5 hour session. It became frustrating to see these guys call with crap and take down huge pots. My friend played hard when an ace came on the board, then at showdown some guy showed his 2 7 offsuit, and the board had 2 7. How can one consistently pull in $6/hr with players like these? It seems hopeless. Looking for some reassurance that I can consistently do well. Thanks.


Nemo

[Bob T.]

My friend played hard when an ace came on the board, then at showdown some guy showed his 2 7 offsuit, and the board had 2 7. How can one consistently pull in $6/hr with players like these? It seems hopeless.

Players like these, are the reason that you can make money despite the high rake that you are undoubtably facing in a 3-6 game. If you don't understand why, then you are facing an uphill battle trying to beat the game.

[Nemo]

Bob,
Perhaps you could explain a bit more to me about these players, and how to crack this game. Even when I played tight and well, I still made hardly anything. I appreciate any help,

Nemo

[uclaguy]

I myself have just started playing low-limit hold'em over the last 9 months. From 2-4 to 6-12 you will always find players who make stupid calls and crack your pocket aces, but in the long run, you will profit from their poor descisions, probability states as much. In low limit games where there is not alot of pre-flop raising, I reccommend loosening up a bit and playing suited connectors (9-10 or better) and non-suited connectors (j-10) under the gun. This of course works only if you are in the typical low limit game where there is #1: LITTLLE PRE-FLOP RAISING and #2: AT LEAST 5 PEOPLE SEE THE FLOP. Lossen your starting requirements as your position increases, and if you are on the small blind call any non-raised pot with any suited cards. Flushes are the money hands in low limit. They will cost you money when your four-flush goes dead, but they pay themselves off the times you actually hit them becuase the pots get so huge. I assume you have read a good deal but let me suggest that you read and RE-READ sklansky and malmuth's "loose" section in "hold'em for advanced players". I also highly recommend Lee Jones' book on low limit hold'em.
Goodluck in the future ,
Chris

(PS the swing in low limits are wild, so besides good playing, bankroll is the most crucial factor to being successful.....200-300 big bets to minimize your chances of going broke to 5 % or less, i.e. $1600-$2400 for 4-8)

[TJD]

I too am fairly new to this game. I have been playing for 3 months or so online. I do not have a losing week to date so "maybe" I have learned how to play against loose players.

I use the word "maybe" because I believe that my table time is too short to be certain.

You seem concerned that you have not made your $15 after 2.5 hours play. This is the wrong attitude.

I have had sessions when I have not won a pot in 2 hours and been $200 down and have also had "mad half hours" when I have won $300. Neither of these is significant; except that the second type feels much more comfortable.

In these loose games ANYTHING can (and will) happen. You may be dealt many great pockets that win or you may be dealt great pockets that you ram and jam the pot with and lose. On a hand by hand basis the results are just down to luck nothing else.

You may try to improve your chances by eliminating some of the contenders when you have a vulnerable hand but whether the weaker players take any notice and fold may itself be little more than chance, depending on whether they think their star sign is favourable or whether they believe they are "running good"

To beat any game you just have to play better than your opponents. If they regularly come into the pot with T7o and then hang around calling 2 bets to fill a gutshot they will lose all their money. The comedians calling with A3o (except from the blinds) will also lose their money.

I lost 2 hands yesterday having raised preflop from early position with AKo. Flop came A high on both occasions and the river was a Q on one and a T on the other. In both cases the pot was heads up when the river card came. I paid off my opponents with AQo and ATo. They were each betting on a 43:3 shot with nothing like the odds to draw. I like those folks in the pot.

To beat low limit games I believe you need patience. If you get dragged into the poor play of your opponents you will lose like they do (in the long run).

I have found S&M, Jones and Carson to be all excellent learning tools. The each take a different perspective and they all need to be re-read several times before you can fully understand what they are saying.

If you want to learn how to beat these games, study these books and apply their wisdom.

[RydenStoompala]

It looks like you may need more hours of play before you decide the low limits are infected by too many river rats to make it worthwhile. In facing the same types, I found that getting a little more agressive pre-flop tended to narrow it down a little and then, if you happen to flop a great hand, string it out. Play fewer hands, isolate the calling stations and then, when you get what you want, hit the gas. Raise the turn and the river to see if they have something strange and re-raise if you know you're stronger. The lack of game choices can be anoying. Know for certain the weak guy is going to get streaky lucky and lay a big hurt on the table, so keep checking your temperature. Tilt is your biggest enemy in these situations, not the lottery player.

[anatta]

"How can one consistently pull in $6/hr with players like these?"
You've asked and answered your own question.

Everytime a player plays his hand incorrectly against you, you make money. The results on a particular hand don't matter. Learn why they are playing incorrectly, learn how to make this happen as often as possible, and play long enough so that you are GUARENTEED to get the inevitable positive results.

[Bob T.]

Nice post, TJD, Hope you continue to contribute here.

[Bob T.]

Basically, you need to be able to recognize what kind of mistakes your opponents are making, and then be able to adjust your play to those mistakes.

In a nutshell. If they are too loose ( and this is the most common low limit mistake ) you need to value bet more.

If they are too tight, you can semibluff, and bluff more often.

If they are too aggressive, you can trap more often.

If they are too passive, you can play more draws and call a little more often with moderate values, because they aren't likely to bet the river, unless they have a big hand, and then you can lay your hand down.

The important thing for you to know, is what good poker would look like, and to compare your opponents play to that, so that if they are making mistakes, you can see what kind of mistakes they made, and figure out what kind of adjustments to make.

Secondly, your expectations about how much money you might make at this game are out of line. In low limit games, the number one winner is the rake box. A good, player, can probably hope to break even to win a little bit over time. The best player at the table might be able to average winning 1 or 2 big bets an hour. But the good players standard deviation is going to swing him back and forth 10 big bets an hour, so in two hours, you don't even know if you were good, bad, lucky, or unlucky. All you know is that you have enough profit to stop at Taco Bell on the way home. In a two hour session you could win or lose as much as 50 big bets, but you are really only able to win, on average, a couple of big bets an hour, if you are the best player at the table.

Hope this helped.

[bad beetz]

for shizzle. TJD drops true kronkite for all of us.

I like to do some extra calling on the flop and raising the turns in this type of game. People will call a bet on the flop with zilch, and I mean like undercards to the board.

Lets say the flop comes down Ace-high and you have AKo. The man to your right bets. If the pot is very large, I like to call here and raise the turn. It's not slowplaying, it's just delayed leveraging. Even if you raise the flop, people are still likely to call. Raising the turn gets respect in these games. If someone hits runner runner because you did this so be it, they probably would have called anyway.

The table has to be set just right to do this, but I think it's important to leverage out idiots with big bets.