Party $30+$3 - is this my only play?

[TJD]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (6 handed)

UTG (t1225)
MP (t1910)
Hero (t1130)
Button (t1408)
SB (t710)
BB (t1617)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP raises to t600, Hero raises to t1130 (All-In), Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP calls t530.

Flop: (t2710) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t2710) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t2710) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2710
<font color="green">Main Pot: t2710 (t2710), between MP and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by MP (t2710).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
MP shows 8c 8h (three of a kind, eights).
Hero shows As Kd (one pair, aces).
Outcome: MP wins t2710. </font>

I am still fairly new to SnGs so although my gut told me this was a MUST reraise allin. I could easily be wrong. MP has been fairly solid but I would not rule out ATs and up or even KQo especially as the blinds are big. Adding those hands I am ahead of to the possible pocket pair that I am behind and the (remote?) possibility that MP folds to an allin reraise if they are attempting to steal and I felt it was probably right (I still do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).

However, I am not sure, since it violates the principle of being the initial aggressor. Help from the experienced very welcome.

Trevor

[stupidsucker]

I am no expert, and I have trouble with choices like this as well.

I am near certain I would have done the same thing you did (ALL IN) however looking at it after the fact, I feel a fold may have been the best thing to do. This guy Min raised from an early position. I am surprised all he had was 88. A lot of times a min raise at this level will easily be AA or KK. Breaking it down in total guestimation. Id say there was over a 70% chance you were beaten preflop with most of that being a coinflip. Lay that sucker down and wait for a better chance to be first in the pot.

My advice may be off, and like I said.. I probably would have pushed too. maybe someone wil set us both straight.

[triplc]

I think this is the perfect play. The big blind is already T300, and there are still 6 of you left, so it's not like you are waiting for someone to bust out. In fact, you are second from the bottom, so you need to do some work here anyway.

You have only 4XBB left approx., and you have a very good hand. You are probably behind, but to wait for a better hand at this point is the wrong move in my opinion.

At this point, the winner of this tournament is going to be the one who gets the luckiest...if the short stack doubles through he's almost the big stack, and the blinds are so huge that it's basically all in or fold. If I had been the big stack, I wouldn't have wasted my time with a T600 raise...I'd have pushed. You took your shot with a very good hand. There's no guarantee that in the next 15 hands or so you'll see anything close to this.

Play well,

CCC

[stupidsucker]

I am still on the fence about it. I just dont think folding here with AKo is a horrible play. I admit, I probably would have pushed too, but then questioned my play later.

I am very curious what some of the regular SnG posters think.
In all honesty if I push here I dont want the raiser to call. I would feel better about pushing if the raiser did a 3x BB raise opposed to a min raise. (unless this guy always min raises then push away)



The min raise really bothers me.

[Leonardo]

No offence to anyone, but this is the easiest push in the world, and to think otherwise is just flat out WRONG. There is no debating it. Just accept that fact that with 6 left and the blinds high (im surprised 6 were left with blinds at 150-300 at party) there is a lot of luck involved, you just have to look for situations where you are a favourite in the long run. AK is a long run favourite here for sure.

[Jman28]

I agree entirely. Short handed, with the blinds this high, players will min raise with any ace, sometimes any king, and sometimes nothing at all. I would push here 100 times out of 100.

[stupidsucker]

The more I think about it , and read the posts saying I am wrong the more I am convinced that folding isnt bad here.

with the blinds so high and with MP already in for 600 he is pot commited for another 530, so you KNOW you are getting called here unless he made a moronic minraise with absolute crap. Any pair and you are the underdog with almost ZERO chance of buying the pot preflop.

A lot of it comes down to a read if you have one. Does this guy normaly minraise or is he a 3x BB guy or a pusher? I would feel more comfortable pushing with QTo first in then I would pushing against a minraise with AKo.

Everyone is getting scared at this time, and YES luck is a big factor this late in the game with still 6 left. Just the fact that there are 6 people left tell me its a tight table and full of better then average players for a party SnG. This also tells me that other people are going to get very agressive. Min raises can be very scary.

I am more then willing to be corrected, and it seems I am going against the flow, but I say let the BB call the minraise and wait for a better time to push when you have a much less likely chance of getting called by a monster.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree entirely. Short handed, with the blinds this high, players will min raise with any ace, sometimes any king, and sometimes nothing at all. I would push here 100 times out of 100

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

I dont think 6/10 people is "shorthanded" and I dont think people would minraise with "any King OR any Ace" They are way more likely to push then minraise.

[Tosh]

I see what you are saying and you are right, often you will be on the wrong side of a coinflip. Its also clear he's also not folding. However, you do have an overlay for a coinflip and its true that these guys will often show AQ, AJ etc and even some of the most random hands you can imagine. The min raise is a weird play at times, but I need a read to really start worrying about AA/KK. In this positon you also have little time, you may not even get anything as good as QTo before your big blind, which is a big chunk of your stack.

This is a time where I'll take my chances with a possible coinflip.

[stupidsucker]

Thanks Tosh.

I sent out a few personal messages. (am I being deffensive??) asking some peoples opinions I respect to post here. I am very serious about getting better at poker, and I am already a winning poker player.

Thinking about this situation more and more, I believe that folding or pushing are both OK moves. By pushing you take a large lead and place in first/second more often, but also go out in 6th more often. When you fold here you have a better chance of squeeking into 3rd place.

I am going to have to agree that ABC poker says pushing here is the best thing, however stepping your game up to the next level is knowing when folding here can be more benificial.

As I mentioned before, my first reaction is PUSH.. and they say, think long think wrong....I have been beating myself up over questioning this, and I still am leaning towards wanting to give folding here a chance. I deffenatly think an autofold here is the wrong choice. It deserves a little thought on what you think your opponent has. If this MP guy has always been pushing or 3xBB betting and this is his first min raise I am sticking to my guns and I am folding this AKo (if I am smart enough to think about this).

Does anyone agree with me or at least see that folding isnt a total chump move?