Steal turns into top pair no kicker

[spacemonkey57]

I don't have the exact hand history, so bear with me as I try to convert one that I copy and pasted into the right format. The stack sizes are approximations.

I guess my main question is was calling the all-in bet on the flop stupid or not.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (3 handed)

Hero (t6500)
SB (t3200)
BB (t55)


Preflop: Hero is Button with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero bets 300, SB Calls, BB folds

I know that's not a great stealing hand, but SB and BB were very tight with their blinds as soon as we got to three handed. I had been stealing successfully 1/2 the time at least.

Flop: (t800) J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets 800, SB raises all in to 2900, Hero calls

I bet the pot with top pair no kicker. I though this was a nice, agressive play heads up. Was it that or was it a nice, stupid play heads up.

After he raised, this was my line of thinking. Earlier I had let SB raise me off a pot-sized bet when I was trying to steal a few times, so I figured he was trying this again. I figured he would have pushed with an overpair pf after I raised if he had one. I put him on a medium pair. So I called his all-in bet with top pair. I was thinking this is what is meant by "Play for first, settle for third." Plus, If I lost I'd still be in decent shape for second considering the size of BB's stack. How's my reasoning here?

Turn: (t7400) 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img](2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t7400) 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t7400
Main Pot: t7400 (t7400), between Hero and SB. > Pot won by Hero (t7400).

Hero shows J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img](one pair, jacks).
SB shows A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (high card, Ace).
Outcome: Hero wins t7400.



I won the tournament the next hand when my Q4o flopped a queen to beat the SB's K6o (the small blind put him all in)

[BradleyT]

At least try to have a "moderate" hand when you steal, not some piece of trash like J4o lol.

And if the BB is T300 how is raising to T400 (even possible?) a steal attempt?

You got lucky plain and simple.

[spacemonkey57]

I'm not sure on the exact values w/o the hand history. I raised the size of the pot. I was hoping that the SB would play for second and fold hoping to push the BB out of the game next hand.

[Toro]

SB played the hand terribly. He waited until he was behind to raise. If you're raising with trash like J4o I would have you already pegged as a garbageman and would have re-raised all-in preflop.

[FloppedFlush]

My read on the situation would have been that SB had you beat. Unless he's been playing like a total maniac bozo the entire time, I would say that he wouldn't make an all-in bluff when the other player was about to get blinded into 3rd on the next hand. I'd expect him to have at least top pair-top kicker - probably something even better.

I see from the results, I would have been wrong.

[spacemonkey57]

Thanks everyone. I guess step one is to stop stealraising with garbage. Step two is hoping my luck holds up [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I had been getting away with it so often that I just couldn't help myself. I think I was also used to stealing because earlier the player on my left disconnected with four players left and I got at least 2/3 of his blind money because the other two were so passive about stealing them.

[carpola]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks everyone. I guess step one is to stop stealraising with garbage. Step two is hoping my luck holds up I had been getting away with it so often that I just couldn't help myself. I think I was also used to stealing because earlier the player on my left disconnected with four players left and I got at least 2/3 of his blind money because the other two were so passive about stealing them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might be the only one but i dont think stealing with garbage is horrible. It just depends on what you think the percentages are that they will fold. If my opponents are super tight I'll raise with anything. With your chip position.

Even against overcards your only about a 2-1 dog preflop and i'd like my chances with top pair after the flop. If you win this hand you've basically come in first. Good Play.

[ddubois]

As a newbie, I'm not qualified to have an opinion, but....

I agree. Aggression is GOOT. Once you're in the money, you have to play the player more than the cards. Alot of 10/1 players are far too tight at that stage and will bleed their blinds over time. If you use your position to raise with garbage and get re-raised, you shrug, fold, and then you do it again. I mean, you can't raise every hand - you have to fold some reasonable amount to maintian an image of sane hand-selection. (BTW, I think folding the SB into the BB goes a long way to maintaining a good image.) But if you aren't raising more often than your opponent you're in bad shape. The guy who's afraid to lose, will.

IMO.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks everyone. I guess step one is to stop stealraising with garbage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Sklansky talks about this in TPFAP. Stealing with AQ is horrible when you get re-raised. Stealing with 7-2 is great when you get re-raised because you can confidently fold.

I'm not too sure that this applies to the SPECIFIC situation, but don't make a general statement like that about stealing with trash.

[Pitcher]

Hi All,

I am with Jedi and Carpola. I would have raised all in with any two cards in that situation because the player with the tiny stack will fold and will be delighted if the bet is called.

Your play after the flop should have been to push. The SB played this very poorly (as stated previously) and deserved to loose.

Pitcher