Game Theory

[TripKings]

What are your opinions on game theory and its relavance to poker success? Are there any books that cover game theory, as it applies to poker, that are considered definitive and must reads? Thank you.

-TripKings

[Monty Cantsin]

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What are your opinions on game theory and its relavance to poker success? Are there any books that cover game theory, as it applies to poker, that are considered definitive and must reads? Thank you.

-TripKings

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Game theory has little or no practical application in day to day poker. However, it has some very interesting applications to the high-level theoretical study of poker as you can learn from searching the archives.

For example, the idea of "mixing up" your play is a commonly understood component of expert play. You don't need to know anything about game theory to know this. However, the game theoretical concept of a "mixed strategy" is essential for understanding how and why this works, and for calculating the optimal mixed strategy for various types of situations.

Also, game theory is a really cool and interesting topic to study for its own sake. If you are looking for a good general interest introduction, I highly recommend Prisoner's Dilemma by William Poundstone.

/mc

[karlson]

I disagree. I think game theory is very important.

While you can probably learn enough to beat a low/mid-limit game without really understanding any theory, you will find that concepts are much clearer and easier if you do understand the theory behind them. Concepts like whether you should be more likely to bluff if the pot is big or small, or why certain calls that might look -EV at first are actually important to make because otherwise your opponent would have a clearly winning strategy. And if you actually want to become an expert, I think a solid theoretical understanding is a must.

If you read and understood Theory of Poker, you're probably in pretty decent shape. FWIW, if you don't have much of a math background, I suggest obtaining a very solid understanding of probability and statistics before you launch into a text on game theory. If you do want to peek at what's involved, try searching the RGP boards for posts related to [0,1] poker by Jerrod Ankenman (it's like a 10-part series of posts).

[jdl22]

I agree. Anoter excellent introductory book which shows some applications of game theory and is well written and interesting is Thinking Strategically by Dixit and Nalebuff.

[Monty Cantsin]

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Concepts like whether you should be more likely to bluff if the pot is big or small, or why certain calls that might look -EV at first are actually important to make because otherwise your opponent would have a clearly winning strategy.

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I totally agree. But you're not really going to learn anything about these concepts from reading "official" Game Theory books. Instead, you'll get them from poker books like Theory of Poker and the rest of the 2+2 canon (and online discussions) where the authors have applied concepts from GT to specific poker situations. I don't think these books are generally considered to be GT texts themselves.

For most players, pursuing original GT texts would be a red herring. As I understand it (and I'm no expert) at this point Poker has more to teach GT than GT has to teach poker.
Nice overview of this topic.

Having said that, obviously for anyone interested in serious high-level theoretical work GT is a rich and important source to study.

/mc

[Utah]

"Game theory has little or no practical application in day to day poker"

It has a lot of practical application and this is demonstrated by players such as Chris Ferguson and Paul Phillips. I know in the case of Chris Ferguson that he worked through all kinds of game theory models to help him win the World Series of Poker. His father is a Game Theory professor at UCLA and you can look his notes up online.

I dont believe there are currently any good books on game theory as it relates to poker. However, this doesnt mean the research isnt there - it just means it hasnt been published.

The problem with game theory is the levels of complexities you encounter when you start adding variables (betting rounds, cards to come, additional players, etc.). Problems quickly become too complex and unworkable. I believe it is the same problems encountered by Von Neumann when he started applying game theory to economic models and I believe that the complexity issue is the main criticism of game theory.

I agree - Prisioners Dilemma by Poundstone is a good book on beginning game theory and it is quite interesting, especially when it discusses nuclear war.

[Monty Cantsin]

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"Game theory has little or no practical application in day to day poker"

It has a lot of practical application and this is demonstrated by players such as ...

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Ok, I relent. Please amend the above quote to read "The traditional literature of Game Theory has little or no practical application in day to day poker."

/mc