Calling a raise with AKo

[artman]

Sít n' Go at Absolute poker. BB is $40 and i'm UTG with AKo. I decide to limp, 3 other people limp with me and then the SB raises to $80. Everyone calls. SB is the biggest stack with about $3500. I have about $1400. Starting stacksize is $1500.
The flop:23A rainbow
SB bets $360 and i call. All others fold.
Turn:7
SB checks and now i move allin. SB thinks for a while and calls. How did i play this hand? And what do you think the SB had? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[C M Burns]

I think, in general not raising even ug, w/ AK is a mistake. from my experinece it's major value is hitting an A or K flop, raising, having people assume you have AK and winning a decent pot. If you do get played back at it is easier to get away from b/c people should give you credit for top pair +top kicker. by not raising, now you have a small pot, more implied odds w/ a pot sized bet, and people who could hold anything. and when stacks are deep one pair is not a very strong hand. I think the only time in general you may want to limp w/ ak, is later in a tourney, and/or if people are very agresive, you would then want someone w/ a weaker A or K to go after the pot w/ all thier chips.

In your hand if you knew this big stack to be very aggresive, you may have made a good move, he could have a high AX of some kind, and not give you credit for AK b/c of your limp and he has you well covered, or he could have 2 pair or a staight.

If he did have AQ and you got him to put in money he wouldn't have w/ a raise by you, you made a great move, if you let him in w/ A3 off or 45, then you made a bone head move. The problem is I think the latter will happen more often then the former, and the net loss of the latter will generally outway the gain of the former.

[Scooterdoo]

I don't know the results, but I had a similar hand today which I posted a bit ago. The difference is I wouldn't have raised all-in on the turn given the SB's preflop bet and his flop bet. I would assume he has either AK, AQ or AJ (probably suited), a high pair AA-JJ, only AA is likely of this combo given his flop bet or most likely A2 or A3, probably suited.

Given the A on the flop it would be unlikely he made the bet he did on the flop without either AK, AQ, AJ, AA or two pair. It also seems odd that he would make the preflop riase with the A2 or A3 but I have seen stranger things happen. Again, I'm not sure why you went all-in on the turn given his flop bet. I would probably bet a few hundred and see how much strength he had by looking for a call or raise -- I wouldn't be trying to get him to fold at this point, since I would feel it's unlikely.

[JDO]

One of the frequent posters on this site runs a tag line sometimes that says something to the effect of 'not raising preflop with AK is a crime against humantiy'; I think it's pretty true.
I would worry about that bet by SB, it looks like a pot building bet (he knows noone with fold) to make his big pocket pairs pay-off big; or maybe just a medium pocket pair.
Since you just limp and call pre-flop. He makes a pot sized bet trying to win it right there. It would be very hard for you to fold, calling seems ok. Your other option is to fire a big bet back at him, about 600 and try to win it right there. But if he fires back, you'll have a hard time folding.

Now he checks to you, you go all-in and he's confused. His play here is curious. He either has KK, and puts you on a bluff (or was just desperate. Or AA and is afraid you have a straight. Or is just being a knuckle head. you could have bet around 600 and done the same thing and saved a few chips if you loose the hand.
I don't know. Personally, I think your trouble really started pre-flop. Had you made a 4XBB raise you would have a better read on what he had. The call is OK. The all-in was ok too but a pot sized bet would do the same thing. That's my take.

[artman]

I see your point. I guess my thinking was off. But anyway here's my thinking. It was the early stages of the tourney and the play was pretty loose i figured i'd probably get 4 or 5 callers, and if i didn't hit i'd probably have to muck.So i decided to limp. Then when the SB raised i didn't put him on AA or KK because he raised too little to get the pot shorthanded. All 5 players stayed in. So i put him on AX,QQ,JJ or a medium sized pair. When he bet the flop i thought he either had an A or he was bluffing with an underpair. But i only called the bet because i wasn't sure of the players behind me. They folded. Then he checked the turn. That's when i was thinking (either i read him correctly and i double up or i go broke) thus i pushed in. He called showing AJ. River was a blank. Don't know if i made the right play, but when he blinked at the turn i thought moving in was the best play given my read. Anyway thanks for the advice.

[fsuplayer]

JDO-
Yeah, I believe that quote is from Sklansky:
"Failing to raise with AKs after three or four limpers is a crime against humanity."
Basically, AKs is the best drawing hand in poker that also happens to be a great hand to hit TPTK with and not building up the pot for that hand is unexcusable (sp.) That applies to limit HE and NLHE as well.

[LetsRock]

I usually will open raise with any AK, but you can really mess with people when you limp. I don't think you are in trouble here and your "incorrect" play of this hand is confusing the hell out your opponent.

(I've read the results, but trying to critique from an "unknown" perspective)

I would be most worried that his Ax caught a 2 pair. Other than that I'd be pretty happy to be getting his call.

This happens to me frequently (actually twice yesterday) where someone underplayed a big ace and blew my AJ and AT right out of the water (and busted me right out of the tourney).

It can be a very effective play sometimes. In fact it fits right in with the FTOP: You are forcing your opponent to make mistakes based on the way you played the hand - if he could see your cards, he'd have played it differently. (Serious paraphrasing, but you get the point.)

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I believe that quote is from Sklansky:
"Failing to raise with AKs after three or four limpers is a crime against humanity."

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, in this quote, the AK is suited. Secondly, and more importantly in this case, there are 3 or 4 limpers. Context matters.