Stuff About Taking Notes

[toss]

I find myself playing without PT stats a lot. Things I try to note about other players include:

How loose they are PF
What they raise with
How loose they are postflop
Postflop aggression
Misc. Quirks

I use a lot of abbreviations and moreso after watching TStone play.

pfft: Peel flop, fold turn
pfptfr: Peel flop, peel turn, fold river
pAhf: Peel A high flop

I notice TStone using these and variations of these a lot. More useful when the action often consists of you raising and the BB calling.

I have my own system that I use for classify PF looseness:

Tght: Tight
S-Loose: Semiloose
Loose: Loose
Loooose: Very loose

I also have misc. things I like to note.

SMB: Steal my blinds: Doesn't defend blinds
DFB: Don't fold blind: Tenacious Blind Defense
Screwable: Capable of being screwplayed
Sexyable: Capable of being sexied
Donkey: Ridiculously bad plays

Theres my note taking system. Whenever I see other things that stick out I note them aswell. I'm sure this system needs improvement. Any contributions would be appreciated.

[shant]

I'm sure you do it too, but I always make a note on when I catch them pulling weird river bluffraises, or if they checkraise turn semi-bluff a lot. Also, I've made a lot of notes lately on people who defend their blinds TERRIBLY.

[thesharpie]

If I see them betting a gutshot on the flop or something like LP I'll make a note so I feel more comfortable raising mid pair against them, especially in a smaller pot.

Obviously note a turn checkraise bluffer, and note what they'll donkbet with, sometimes I can value raise every street against a gaybettor with one pair due to taking this note.

I don't bother too much with PF, I let the HUD take care of that, but if I notice something really out of line I'll note it, such as limping AK or a 5% PFR opening with JTo in MP.

Against the loose passives I note whether they peel the flop everytime, and what they call down with to see how low I can go with my value bets.

Even though I do it mostly shorthanded, the notes box usually gets cluttered for the loose players since I take so many notes and alot of them are probably unnecessary, or redundant. Anyway here is the type of stuff I note in shorthanded form, I got some of this from bisonbison's post awhile back.

donk prd rag F 2 pf-r HU nada atw - Donkbet a paired flop against preflop raiser with nothing and bets it all the way.

peel F alot - peels the flop liberally

cd ne piece - calls down with any piece, cd A hi if he'll calldown with just an ace

blff R wkns - bluffs river when shown weakness, for me it means heads up unless I specify multiway like the next one

blff T wkns EP 4 way - If the flop got checked through he bluff bet the turn first to act

can't laydown - If I'm against what appears to be a TAG, or someone with a low wenttosd% and I see a bad calldown they made, usually with a premium starting hand

CR prot prd F trps - checkraise the guy to his right, usually the preflop raiser, what would be a protection raise for a good player, on a paired flop with what was actually trips

CR bloat prd F lpp 3 way - checkraise the guy on his left, a pot building move, after getting an overcall with low pocket pair

Interested in seeing what others note, and I'll add some other things if I can think of any.

[TStoneMBD]

hi toss: im flattered.

shant: i use a system to determine how likely they are to make bluff attempts. i use "megadonkey or donkey and x2/3/4". i could probably abbreviate those terms and probably should, but they just naturally came about when i first started playing. im sure MD or D would be easier to type out when playing.

for more details go to my site and move your mouse over notetaking legend.

[flair1239]

I have had a change of heart on notes.

I used to take them religiously. Noting things that I thought were out of the ordinary for that player type.

However, after a few months of this, I realised I was not getting much value from them, compared to the time I would put into taking them. Also the act of taking them had some cost, because I would be making my note, then a table would pop up, I would have to do my action then go back to my note.

Also with the thorough detail of PAHUD these days, IMO you can get a pretty clear idea of what players are capable of within 300-400 hands or so.

Which brings up the other reason I stopped taking notes. For many of the bad players, they are not around long enough for the notes to really add value. For the players that I have several thousand hands with, I notice that their stats eventually end up supporting most notes I took on them anyway.

I do make mental notes during a session, such as "hmmm "player X" is 3-betting my blind steals a lot today... time to start capping (or time to lay-off him a bit). For the sites that I play alot with the same players (ie smaller sites) I kind of have a feel for the regulars anyway.

So I guess I just work on paying more attention, and I am suprised by the stuff that I remember about certain players when the time come to make a decision.

Without HUDs or PT, I would make notes. But (I have no shame in admitting this), I also would only play two tables.

[crunchy1]

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Also the act of taking them had some cost, because I would be making my note, then a table would pop up, I would have to do my action then go back to my note.

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Can you quantify how (or what) this "cost" you?

I take a lot of notes and need a system like this too. One thing I do is be sure to note the limit at which I've seen him play, especially if it is 6m, at the beginning of each note. Sometimes I catch people taking shots at a higher limit, or realize they were slumming it at 2/4 and were lagging it up for sport and I should take my note with the grain of salt.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also the act of taking them had some cost, because I would be making my note, then a table would pop up, I would have to do my action then go back to my note.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you quantify how (or what) this "cost" you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Concentration, and just general unsettledness. As I would have to call up the notes window again to complete my note, and this would sometimes result in distracted play.

I realise my position won't be wildy popular and some will say it is costing me money. But I really do not think so. As I said I think for most players, watching how they are playing on that particular day is more relevant.

Also as I said, the players I play with a lot, I have a pretty good idea of where they are at. With a lot of them I have a pretty good idea of what they think of me (based upon how they treat some of my plays).

I just don't think lack of manual note taking is coting me much if anything.

Although, for someone trying to reinforce/develope, their observation skills, I think it is a good exercise. I think my flirtation with manual note taking helped me solidify my observational thinking (so it was good). But at this point I don't think it is worth the effort for me.

[SlantNGo]

I agree 100%. Once I get more than 2 or 3 lines in the notes window, it's so cluttered that it's basically useless for me unless I start reading them well in advance (starting pre-flop).

I found that at live games, I didn't need specific notes on anyone. I would get a general feel for a player just by watching them, and mentally, it would provide me with a read that often allowed me to push an edge that I wouldn't normally.

I'm trying to apply this to my online game but it gets too boring when I can just surf the web at the same time.

[toss]

I jumped at the chance to see someone 4-table Party 15/30 and see if I would make the same decisions. You seem to play more aggressively as I do more often betting the flop and turn. You also reminded me that I need to bet out with mid or sometimes bottom pair against those loose calling stations. Great learning tool.