PokerStars?

[3TJ]

Any advice will help!
I play on VCPoker on the 0.5/$1 or 1/$2 NLHE tables - normally 6 max but sometimes on the 9 seat tables, I have built a bankroll of ~$1500 and also taken out ~$1000 - I have not played on any other site due to being:
a) new to the game - been playing since Jan 05 and
b) worried I might start losing (!)
You cannot use poker tracker on VC (I have never seen it in use) and you cannot get rake back on there, so my questions are:
Should I down load another site so that I can get PT to improve my game?
Playing these levels, would rake back be a benefit?
Are the games going to be harder as they are mainly US players, (the home of the game) and then I will get raped...losing my hard earnt BR (I am a UK resident - not sure if this makes any difference?)
Thanks

[BlackRain]

I don't think there is any substantial skill level difference between the various sites. I mean, why would this be the case? Its random people signing up for certain poker rooms.

I play on pokerstars at those levels. I doubt you will find the games substantially harder or easier than where you are coming from.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there is any substantial skill level difference between the various sites. I mean, why would this be the case? Its random people signing up for certain poker rooms.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, you'd be surprised. Fortunately my personal favorite aquarium has such piss-poor software and cashouts that the 2+2 crowd would rather just stay on Party. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But yeah, I think Pacific players really are substantially worse than many sites. This is because their big marketing tie-in is to the online casino that owns them. People who are online to play slots or whatever and decide to give poker a try are not going to, by and large, be tough opponents.

And most would say that PokerStars and UB are the two toughest sites. I don't know about why, though.

All that said, to the OP's concern, i don't think the problem is US-based versus European sites. There are plenty of US fish populating Party, Pacific, and the rest.

[Wyrm2]

Probably not Pokerstars. I would suggest Party or Pacific for fish. Get a rakeback deal through the classifieds here before you get an account there. If you have some money that you can invest, you can really make some extra $ by clearing bonuses from various sites. I'd suggest www.bonuswhores.com to learn more about that (look for Bonus Whoring 101 for details).

Don't worry about the fishiness of the US vs. Europe, there are plenty of fish all over. If you are taking the time and energy to learn the game you will be successful on either continent.

[BlackRain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there is any substantial skill level difference between the various sites. I mean, why would this be the case? Its random people signing up for certain poker rooms.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, you'd be surprised. Fortunately my personal favorite aquarium has such piss-poor software and cashouts that the 2+2 crowd would rather just stay on Party. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But yeah, I think Pacific players really are substantially worse than many sites. This is because their big marketing tie-in is to the online casino that owns them. People who are online to play slots or whatever and decide to give poker a try are not going to, by and large, be tough opponents.

And most would say that PokerStars and UB are the two toughest sites. I don't know about why, though.

All that said, to the OP's concern, i don't think the problem is US-based versus European sites. There are plenty of US fish populating Party, Pacific, and the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you are right. I don't have much experience with other sites so maybe I shouldn't have said that. I just find it odd that a bunch of tough players would sign up at stars and a bunch of morons on pacific. but maybe it has to do with marketing as you say.

[XxGodJrxX]

I have never played at Pacific, so I cannot comment on that site. But I do not think that it is too farfetched that Stars is tougher than Party, for pretty obvious reasons. The lowest limits that Party offers are .5/1, and it has the largest player base out of all the sites. Pokerstars has the second largest player base, but they also offer ring games as low as .02/.04.

When I first started playing a few months ago, I signed up at Party and dove straight into .5/1, just as all of the new poker players must do if playing at Party. Luckily I made some pretty good dough despite being new to online poker. In contrast, if I was to go to Stars, I would have stuck around in the nanolimits. Very few new online poker players would dive right into .5/1; most new players play to have fun, not get rich.

Just tonight, there were at least five times the amount of .25/50 tables at Stars than there were .5/1. If the players at Party had that kind of choice, then Party .5/1 would be a much tougher game since all the new players are at the lowest limit game.

The players at Stars aren't "tougher" as a whole. At limits that are worth playing for an above-average player (I'll say .5/1 and above), they are relatively tougher because of the greater variety in games offered at Stars.

[Student]

Of course my experience on PokerStars (PS) relates to my personal talents, knowledge, ignorance of poker etc, but I haven't figured out how to beat the 1/2 cents NL HE tables at PS yet! I work very hard at learning, and sometimes I think that I'm establishing a bottom, but then I start losing again.

I suspect that 1/2 cents NL HE tables at PS attracts very experienced poker players, who have been having their problems at their normal higher limit tables, and they're down at the 1/2 cents tables to get refocused. One thing about my tables is most players there have a very large "range" of hands they'll enter. I'll see a player I view as Strong win a pot with A2unsuited, and I know this hand isn't just another "Ax" hole card entry for him. Of course, at a loose table everyone, even Strong players, get to loosen up with their hole cards. Then too, in the final stages of poker tournaments, when there are only a few players left, one is necessarily loose. So playing on 1/2 cents tables is useful practice for tournament last stages.

No one likes to admit they are a moron, even a poker moron, so the reader should realize some of the above is my rationalization process. I believe that ALL levels on PS are populated by strong players, which disagrees with the person to whom I'm responding. Perhaps it is that the 5/10 cents NL HE tables at PS have the dumb PS players! I haven't been there to check, but if my losing continues I might be there, or even on Pacific Poker...

Limit players will say PS has 2/4 cents tables, little realizing that for NL HE they have 1/2 cents tables. Too, limit 2/4 cents tables charge no rake at PS. 1/2 cents NL HE tables charge 5%, but only on pots of $1 and over etc. Hence, rake amount is MOD(5), namely 5, 10, 15 etc cents at NL HE. PS has 1/2 cents and 5/10 cents for NL HE, and no 2/4 cents (AND 10/25 cents, 25/50 cents, $1/2 etc etc).

Dave

[BlackRain]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course my experience on PokerStars (PS) relates to my personal talents, knowledge, ignorance of poker etc, but I haven't figured out how to beat the 1/2 cents NL HE tables at PS yet! I work very hard at learning, and sometimes I think that I'm establishing a bottom, but then I start losing again.

I suspect that 1/2 cents NL HE tables at PS attracts very experienced poker players, who have been having their problems at their normal higher limit tables, and they're down at the 1/2 cents tables to get refocused. One thing about my tables is most players there have a very large "range" of hands they'll enter. I'll see a player I view as Strong win a pot with A2unsuited, and I know this hand isn't just another "Ax" hole card entry for him. Of course, at a loose table everyone, even Strong players, get to loosen up with their hole cards. Then too, in the final stages of poker tournaments, when there are only a few players left, one is necessarily loose. So playing on 1/2 cents tables is useful practice for tournament last stages.

No one likes to admit they are a moron, even a poker moron, so the reader should realize some of the above is my rationalization process. I believe that ALL levels on PS are populated by strong players, which disagrees with the person to whom I'm responding. Perhaps it is that the 5/10 cents NL HE tables at PS have the dumb PS players! I haven't been there to check, but if my losing continues I might be there, or even on Pacific Poker...

Limit players will say PS has 2/4 cents tables, little realizing that for NL HE they have 1/2 cents tables. Too, limit 2/4 cents tables charge no rake at PS. 1/2 cents NL HE tables charge 5%, but only on pots of $1 and over etc. Hence, rake amount is MOD(5), namely 5, 10, 15 etc cents at NL HE. PS has 1/2 cents and 5/10 cents for NL HE, and no 2/4 cents (AND 10/25 cents, 25/50 cents, $1/2 etc etc).

Dave

[/ QUOTE ]

The 1/2 cent NL HE tables on stars are populated by pure maniacs, loose passives, loose aggressives and people who don't even understand the basics of the game. You may find one player who is fairly solid or a good player from .5/1 and above just amusing himself.

I am not sure which 1/2 cent tables at PS you are playing lol. 5/10 cent is just as bad. IMO, it is not until the .25/50 cent levels that you start getting a few players who are actively thinking about the game they are playing. At .50/1 and above, pokerstars is largely populated by solid players and a few professionals with a big jump between .50/1 and 1/2.

These are my observations from a lot of experience in the micros and up to 2/4 NL HE on stars.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
I just find it odd that a bunch of tough players would sign up at stars and a bunch of morons on pacific.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stars is a just a poker site, whereas Pacific gets a lot of their traffic from an online casino.

I think that's the case, anyway.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Student]

Let's assume I accept your description of players at PokerStars (PS) 1/2 cents tables: "pure maniacs, loose passives, loose aggressives and people who don't even understand the basics of the game." Being a thoughtful but ignorant beginning poker player, I suppose that places me in the last group there at the 1/2 cents NL HE PS tables. For purposes of this discussion, I accept that description, too. However, my self-description would be "brilliant, handsome, worldly, loved and loving, talented, etc etc," but I'd prefer to put our differences aside for the moment.

I appreciate your analysis of higher levels of poker there at PS, since I hope to be there someday! It will be helpful to me, then (though I'm sure I'll have forgotten this all, 20 years from now when I finally arrive, but that's another story).

The pregnant question is: "How does one beat the PS 1/2 cents NL HE tables?" Since you've graduated from them, I'd certainly value your recommendations. Maybe, even, they might rescue me!

Dave