What would your BB/100 winrate be if you saw everyone's hole cards?

A_C_Slater · #1 05-06-2005, 02:16 AM

It is generally assumed that 2BB/100 is a solid winrate for a limit hold em player in 2/4 or higher games. What would the winrate be if you played "perfect" poker? Perfect poker being able to see all opponents cards and acting optimally with your given hands.

Let's say a 100,000 hand sample size.

Ianco15 · #2 05-06-2005, 03:04 AM

So you are essentially asking what is the highest sustainable bb/100 if you played perfectly? Very interesting, I can only guess something like 6bb/100 at 2/4+.

Shoe · #3 05-06-2005, 03:18 AM

I think it would be 10+, you could save a LOT of bets when your beat, and pick off a lot of bluffs at the same time, as well as bluff at all the right moments.

TripleH68 · #4 05-06-2005, 04:48 AM

I am thinking HUGE! You could save so many bets it would be sick. e.g. every time someone hit a set against you it would be like insta-savings of 2 or 3 BB/100.

Roswell · #5 05-06-2005, 08:13 AM

It would be off the charts. At least 15 BB/100. There have been posters who have run so hot, they had 7 BB/100 over 10,000 hands - without seeing the opponents' cards.

RollingRockMike · #6 05-06-2005, 09:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It would be off the charts. At least 15 BB/100. There have been posters who have run so hot, they had 7 BB/100 over 10,000 hands - without seeing the opponents' cards.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say even higher, 20+. I've had 10K hands at 8.75bb/100.

Mike

fnord_too · #7 05-06-2005, 09:29 AM

This would be huge. I think an average player could make 10BB/100, and someone who was good at computing odds on the fly and manipulating opponents could make up to 20BB/100 (maybe even more). Even if you just avoided your badly dominated hands you would be adding a lot to your win rate. Post flop you would never make a ground truth -EV decision (that is, a lot of the decisions we make post flop that are +EV over many hands are -EV on some specific hands, and you would never make one of those.) You could always value bet or fold perfectly on the river. (If you see 20% of the flops and go to showdown 35% of the time, that is 7 river decisions/100 that you will make perfectly, that's pretty huge. Seeing everyones cards you are probably able to play at 25% of your hands at least and are probably getting to the river a lot more).

The biggest benefit, by far, would be against maniacs. Think of being able to play against maniacs with low variance. You simply neutralize their biggest asset: the uncertainty they instill.

ChipsForFree · #8 05-06-2005, 10:58 AM

I just played 150 hands (very small sample obviously) on Poki's Poker academy with the hands face up. Made 32 BB's overall so my BB/100 was just over 21.

Nothing too spectacular but I did have a few river beats so I would suspect that this is the bottom range of what you could expect.