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#1
04-16-2005, 01:27 PM
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Standard play w/flush draw and TP on paired board?
Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
I went to check my account balance at Paradise this afternoon, and saw a couple of 2/4 tables with 35+% to the flop, so I decided to try to work off some more of my bonus still lingering from back when I had hair. The SB in this hand is somewhat loose-aggressive PF, but will passively chase post-flop. I don't have a very good read on UTG+1, unfortunately. Preflop: chesspain is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls. Flop: (7 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, chesspain calls. Turn: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, chesspain calls. River: (11.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, chesspain calls. Final Pot: 13.50 BB 
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#2
04-16-2005, 01:31 PM
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Re: Raise this turn?
I don't think you can raise the turn and call a non-heart river without a read.
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#3
04-16-2005, 01:33 PM
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Re: Standard play w/flush draw and TP on paired board?
I like it. I can't imagine I'd play the hand any differently. That may, or may not, be of some consolation to you. Without reads on UTG+1, you can't fold at any point. Even with reads, they'd have to be rock solid for me to fold that river.
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#5
04-16-2005, 01:52 PM
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Re: Standard play w/flush draw and TP on paired board?
I think raising the turn here only ensures that you extract the least money when you are ahead, and lose the most money when you are behind. Villain 3-bets with trips, and probably folds with garbage.
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#6
04-16-2005, 01:54 PM
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Re: Raise this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can raise the turn and call a non-heart river without a read. [/ QUOTE ] I can't imagine folding this river without a read. I assume, then, that you would suggest that I just call the turn and then call the river unimproved?
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#7
04-16-2005, 01:56 PM
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Re: Raise this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't think you can raise the turn and call a non-heart river without a read. [/ QUOTE ] I can't imagine folding this river without a read. I assume, then, that you would suggest that I just call the turn and then call the river unimproved? [/ QUOTE ] That would be my line.
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#8
04-16-2005, 01:58 PM
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Re: Standard play w/flush draw and TP on paired board?
[ QUOTE ]
Villain 3-bets with trips, and probably folds with garbage. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know that this is necessarily true. You definitely only get 3 bet by trips or better, but a significant number of players will call this down with less than trips. That is my experience anyway. I think that your assessment applies to what a player such as yourself would do if you were the villain in this circumstance. Fortunately, not everyone plays that way.
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#9
04-16-2005, 02:46 PM
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Re: Standard play w/flush draw and TP on paired board?
[ QUOTE ]
Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter I went to check my account balance at Paradise this afternoon, and saw a couple of 2/4 tables with 35+% to the flop, so I decided to try to work off some more of my bonus still lingering from back when I had hair. The SB in this hand is somewhat loose-aggressive PF, but will passively chase post-flop. I don't have a very good read on UTG+1, unfortunately. Preflop: chesspain is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls. Flop: (7 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, chesspain calls. Turn: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">chesspain raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, chesspain calls. River: (11.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, chesspain calls. Final Pot: 13.50 BB [/ QUOTE ] IMO you should stop the action after the turn, as I am inclined to say I don't like this cuz I know you missed. That said, I still don't think I like the turn raise. What does he fold that you are behind, other than AJ? What calls that you are ahead of? QJ - 9J? Once he 3-bets, you clearly need to see the river, but now you are kinda stuck calling when you may very well be beat.
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#10
04-16-2005, 02:51 PM
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Re: Standard play w/flush draw and TP on paired board?
[ QUOTE ]
IMO you should stop the action after the turn, as I am inclined to say I don't like this cuz I know you missed. [/ QUOTE ] Since my river call may also be debateable, I wanted to just present the entire hand, with the hope that experienced posters could analyze the turn raise appropriately even after seeing the three-bet afterwards. [ QUOTE ] What calls that you are ahead of? QJ - 9J? [/ QUOTE ] How about a PP or a lower flush draw?
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