JJ put to the test on a monotone flop

Chris Daddy Cool · #1 03-08-2005, 04:52 AM

Here's another one I remembered

I have a $1450 stack. I have villian (UTG) covered, he has about $900. I'm not sure about villian.

NOTE ON VILLIAN: I once raised JJ UTG and he reraised a little and I bet into him on the flop. He called. Turn went check, check and then I value bet the river and he showed KK. That's my only real handle on his play.

A gang of limpers to me on the button. I make it $140 to go with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls. About $325 in the pot.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He checks. I bet $200. He checkraises all in.

My gut is that he does not have a flush, though I of course could be wrong.

Easy call? Easy fold? Somewhere in the middle?

KaneKungFu123 · #2 03-08-2005, 05:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's another one I remembered

I have a $1450 stack. I have villian (UTG) covered, he has about $900. I'm not sure about villian.

NOTE ON VILLIAN: I once raised JJ UTG and he reraised a little and I bet into him on the flop. He called. Turn went check, check and then I value bet the river and he showed KK. That's my only real handle on his play.

A gang of limpers to me on the button. I make it $140 to go with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls. About $325 in the pot.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He checks. I bet $200. He checkraises all in.

My gut is that he does not have a flush, though I of course could be wrong.

Easy call? Easy fold? Somewhere in the middle?

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay.

First off all, if you have to raise JJ $140 pre-flop, you'd be better buying in for $1000 and raising it $70.

When UTG calls that raise, it means he slowplayed KK or AA.

The only way you should be raising to $140 with JJ is if your opponents are absolutely horifically loose.

Id have raised to $25 preflop....

Chris Daddy Cool · #3 03-08-2005, 05:33 AM

you make zero sense.

BobboFitos · #4 03-08-2005, 05:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you make zero sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

dont worry, his advice is very flawed.

or maybe he was joking. i cant tell. time for sleep.

KaneKungFu123 · #5 03-08-2005, 05:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you make zero sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

KaneKungFu123 · #6 03-08-2005, 05:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's another one I remembered

I have a $1450 stack. I have villian (UTG) covered, he has about $900. I'm not sure about villian.

NOTE ON VILLIAN: I once raised JJ UTG and he reraised a little and I bet into him on the flop. He called. Turn went check, check and then I value bet the river and he showed KK. That's my only real handle on his play.

A gang of limpers to me on the button. I make it $140 to go with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls. About $325 in the pot.

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He checks. I bet $200. He checkraises all in.

My gut is that he does not have a flush, though I of course could be wrong.

Easy call? Easy fold? Somewhere in the middle?

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay I'll try again. This is a horible raise preflop unless you are against the weakest, absolute loosest players in the history of 5/10 NL.

JJ is a great hand with this preflop situation and the way you play it looks like you miss the 50BB structure, ie, you arent confident sitting in this game.

When UTG calls 140 cold, he has AA or KK or is terrible terrible. he doesnt seem terrible.

Jason Strasser · #7 03-08-2005, 05:53 AM

Seems like a fairly easy call, esp given his tendency to reraise small with big hands. A set is posssible, but you are still drawing OK. A naked high spade is possible, and you are in good shape, and a low flush is possible, and you also have outs.

Sorry im f'in tired and i have a plane to vienna to catch tmrw but I think that you are either a decent amount ahead enough here to call and that when you are behind you arent going to be in bad shape either.

mikech · #8 03-08-2005, 06:02 AM

this was a 5-10 game? based on the earlier JJ vs KK hand, the guy's obviously pretty tight. this hand, i believe you should fold; i think his most likely hand is QQ with a spade. here's how i see it:

he doesn't have a set, if he called around 15% of his stack preflop with 88 77 or 44 utg that's pretty horrendous. he probably doesn't have a flush either as your gut tells you, but if he does have a flush your J-spade is no good even if another spade comes, cuz he didn't play a ten-high suited hand, it would be AKs/AQs and you're drawing essentially dead.

of course, it's unlikely he flopped the flush, but i don't think he pulls this c/r-all-in move without a spade. i think he has QQ with a spade (KK also possible but less probable since he didn't reraise pf): he flatcalled your pf raise to dodge an ace or king on the flop in case you have AK, plus he's at least slightly worried you might have AA/KK. now he figures even if you do have AA/KK against his QQ you're only 50/50 to have a spade so his flush draw and two remaining queens still give him up to 11 outs, not to mention he may very well have the best hand.

admittedly i'm not a very good hand-reader, but that's my best guess as to his holding. what do you think?

KaneKungFu123 · #9 03-08-2005, 06:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like a fairly easy call, esp given his tendency to reraise small with big hands. A set is posssible, but you are still drawing OK. A naked high spade is possible, and you are in good shape, and a low flush is possible, and you also have outs.

Sorry im f'in tired and i have a plane to vienna to catch tmrw but I think that you are either a decent amount ahead enough here to call and that when you are behind you arent going to be in bad shape either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Best case scenerio is he's up against red Aces or Kings.

Jason Strasser · #10 03-08-2005, 06:07 AM

YOU THINK HE LIMP CALLED WITH THESE HANDS PF?