Party 3/6: Folding AK on the flop getting 19:1...

chesspain · #1 11-07-2004, 09:37 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Being in the midst of a -60BB run over the past thirty six-hours, and having completely chased/misplayed a hand in my prior session to the tune of a wasted 3.5BB, I wasn't in the mood to throw away any more money. In the following hand, I had only been at the table for a couple of orbits, but already I could tell that UTG was a very loose-passive fish. The PF capper (UTG+2) had been playing fairly tight up until this hand. No read on the CO.

Preflop: chesspain is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises, 3 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, chesspain 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+2 caps, CO calls, chesspain calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (17 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
chesspain checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, CO calls, chesspain folds.

Since I'm out of position and possibly drawing nearly dead or to a chop, I was totally lost as to what to do here. And if I do checkcall, or bet and call a raise, what is my plan if a rag falls on the turn? Or do I checkraise this flop (even though the CO has called) and try to take control of this hand? Help!

spamuell · #2 11-07-2004, 09:50 PM

Since I'm out of position and possibly drawing nearly dead or to a chop, I was totally lost as to what to do here. And if I do checkcall, or bet and call a raise, what is my plan if a rag falls on the turn? Or do I checkraise this flop (even though the CO has called) and try to take control of this hand?

Yes, do something like this, just don't fold.

I'd bet the flop, perhaps inducing folds from some of the players in between you and the pre-flop capper, he'll raise fairly often but when he doesn't then he's often folding if you bet again on the turn and putting two bets in on this flop, while annoying, is more +EV than folding here. I think check-calling and check-raising are preferable to folding here, you have too much of a hand to let go on this flop.

The turn plan depends on the flop action but I'd usually end up calling intending to fold the river unimproved and then end up calling the river because the pot is huge and getting shown KK. Don't fold the flop though.

Joe Tall · #3 11-07-2004, 09:52 PM

So you were 95% sure you were drawing dead?

Call the flop, you are closing the flop action which is great position.

Peace,
Joe Tall

sthief09 · #4 11-07-2004, 10:11 PM

if anything you should be LESS inclined to fold in this situation because there's a very small chance that you're reverse dominated by the CO. this is actually one of the better flops you can ask for that don't have an A or a K. occasionally you'll have 0 or 3 outs. if he's got AA, KK, QQ, JJ, or AK, then 18/34 you have about 4 outs, and you're chopping the rest.

Evan · #5 11-07-2004, 10:17 PM

So what's the best play if the turn's a blank?

p.s. Josh, unless this is what you meant by "too much work", stop procrastinating!!

helpmeout · #6 11-08-2004, 05:59 AM

I call preflop

1. Your position sucks
2. If he is a tight raiser he is more likely to have a big pair
3. Your position sucks
4. Deception is always good, if you 3bet you are saying I have AK or better what do you have? If you dont raise and flop an ace he might think you just have Axs or similar trash.
5. Your position sucks

I'd probably call the flop check/fold the turn unless I improve. He could be overagro with AK or has JJ QQ KK AA. You might get lucky on the turn with an A or a K beating his JJ QQ and sharing the pot with AK.

Its at least worth seeing the turn for 1 bet.