Poll: What is your Pokertracker performance with JTo

[Derek in NYC]

Another discussion on a different thread inspires this poll. Is JTo a garbage hand that will cost you far more over the long run than it makes, or it is a monster in hiding that gets nut str8s with plenty of action from TPTK hands? Enough speculation--empirical data speaks! (Reasonable sample sizes only, please.)

[Bob T.]

JT off is a hand that you play from the blinds when you need to, or play when you think you can steal from tight opponents.

[thirddan]

not that it really matters since i hardly ever play the hand and use at Bob T does, but my BB/hand is -.07...

[sthief09]

(Reasonable sample sizes only, please.)


given the infrequency that a given player gets dealt it, and then subsquently plays it, you're probably looking for someone with like 2 million hands played. good luck

[Derek in NYC]

Fair enough. I wasnt speaking of the JT sample size, although the question was ambiguous. I was speaking of the overall PT sample size.

[J.R.]

Red numbers suck (just put in JTo and select whatever criteria you like)

In fairness, this includes what everyone does with this hand, bad and good players alike, but it is based on a huge sample size and clearly indicates JTo is not likely a profitable hand in most spots.

This isn't peachy either

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Red numbers suck (just put in JTo and select whatever criteria you like)

In fairness, this includes what everyone does with this hand, bad and good players alike, but it is based on a huge sample size and clearly indicates JTo is not likely a profitable hand in most spots.

This isn't peachy either

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but put in late position with at least 5 limpers, and the EV is +. As much as .5, which I like. And, as you say, these are stats for everyone, including terrible players and players who mistakenly play this out of position, in short-handed pots, and against a raise. It looks like the stats prove that most of us who think it's a profitable hand in late position in a multiway pot (assuming we never cold-call with it) are correct.

[JTG51]

I'd just like to point out that +/- .75 BB/Hand isn't solidly profitable or unprofitable. It's wildly profitable or unprofitable.

+.75 BB/Hand would make it one of the 10 best starting hands, give or take a couple.

-.75 BB/Hand (for a decent player) would make it the worst starting hand by a huge margin.

Anyone who doesn't fit in the +/- .24 BB/Hand category either has a very small sample size or is doing something very wrong.

[BottlesOf]

Yea I was gonna say the same thing.

Although my sample size is probably too tiny for any meaningful information in this area. The only hands that are > +.75BB for me are AA-JJ and AKo.

[J.R.]

Are you talking about the PR stats? If so, you can not set the parameters to show you a hand's ev after a certain the number of limpers, only the number of players seated at the table and your positon. And where is this .5 BB you reference? What is apparent when you select JTo on the button and chose "any limit" and "any players" is that the value of JTo is inversely correlated with the number of players in the hand. In other words, JTo does far better shorthanded than 10 handed, which makes sense becaue JTo has less high card power and is more subject to domination the greater the number of hands it is potentially up against.