straight and flush draws against a paired board

bosoxfan · #1 08-13-2004, 02:51 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed)

BB (t710)
UTG (t1460)
UTG+1 (t800)
MP1 (t445)
MP2 (t685)
Hero (t975)
CO (t760)
Button (t1480)
SB (t685)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t45, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t30, MP2 calls t30.

Flop: (t145) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t55, MP2 calls t55, Hero calls t55.

Turn: (t310) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t55, MP2 raises to t150,

Is this draw worth it? Any other comments?

Unarmed · #2 08-13-2004, 03:12 PM

IMO, definitely. Your straight outs are all good and only 1 of your flush outs is counterfeited. I don't think he's calling with J4 or Q4 PF and if he has JJ or QQ so be it. (I think he would have reraised QQ preflop so the turn raise doesn't bother me. JJ is a definite possibility but I think that also gets reraised at these limits) You're getting 3.8-1 on the pot alone and are 3.2-1 (11 outs) to hit your draw.

Also, there's a chance he's on a low-mid PP in which case you're getting even better odds to draw as your O/C outs are good. At higher stakes I'd be worried as that turn raise looks like its begging to be called but here I'm definitely calling to see the river.

Dominic · #3 08-13-2004, 03:32 PM

Usually, I think draws are death in tourneys...but this time...I lean towards a call...the BB has a J, MP2 could have a flush draw and just hit his Q - that's why he raised. Or same scenario with a backdoor flush possibility...the only thing I'm worried about is the BB...do I read him as strong or weak? If I think there's a decent chance he'll re-raise, I fold...if I think he's week (just a J), I call. It smells weak...so I call. But I don't think the Qd is live...one of them has it. Either way, you've got the nut flush draw and I highly doubt someone has a 4...unless it's A4...MP2 could have A4h...but even if he does, he's making it cheap for you to draw...

So I call. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

tallstack · #4 08-13-2004, 04:02 PM

IMO, I would consider a raise to about t200 on the flop. No one likely has a four, and a jack may not reraise thinking you have AJ or an overpair as the PF raiser. You have a decent chance to win it right there. If they come over the top then I would toss it. If they call then they may well check to you on the turn giving you control over how you want to play your draw.

I can't argue with just calling the flop, though. You were closing the betting and he certainly didn't price you out. You also keep things cheap with lots of outs. I certainly would not fold.

FWIW, I don't like the call on the turn, though. You have no idea how the BB is going to respond to MP2's raise and you are stuck in the middle of them. I wouldn't want to call t150 to have the BB push behind me.

Dave S

adanthar · #5 08-13-2004, 04:28 PM

Another hand where 3xBB just doesn't cut it preflop. I raise everything I play during L1 to 75 or more and am reasonably happy with the blinds.

On the flop, they're essentially giving you a free card. However, a raise to 200 reopens the betting and your hand is worthless to a reraise, so if they want to let me have the freebie, I'll take it.

On the turn, my A and K outs are worthless [river A action: MP3 goes all in. Can you call with no read?], the flush is 4:1 against for a fifth of my stack, and I'm not closing the action. I'm done.

bosoxfan · #6 08-13-2004, 09:42 PM

Thanks guys some good responses.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed)

BB (t710)
UTG (t1460)
UTG+1 (t800)
MP1 (t445)
MP2 (t685)
Hero (t975)
CO (t760)
Button (t1480)
SB (t685)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t45, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t30, MP2 calls t30.

Flop: (t145) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t55, MP2 calls t55, Hero calls t55.

Turn: (t310) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t55, MP2 raises to t150, Hero folds, BB calls t95.

River: (t610) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: t610

MP2 takes it with 2 pair Q's and 4's