Preodrained Conclusion

[andyfox]

"The summit, held at a U.S. military base on this dot in the eastern Atlantic, amounted to less than two hours of talks. No more was needed, U.S. officials said, because the conclusion was preordained."

Indeed.

[Chris Alger]

Right. As Maureen Dowd noted Sunday, Bush indicated last week that he wasn't interested in disarmament afer all, which Powell echoed yesterday by dismissing a French proposal to give Iraq 30 days to comply, on the spurious grounds that Iraq has had 12 years. So for 12 years Iraq has not been able to conquer even it's own country, has not used WMD, has reliminated 90-95% of it's WMD and WMD facilities, and has neither funneled WMD destruction to terrorists nor supported any terrorist act against the U.S., but 1/144th of that time to account for what it claims to have destroyed is too much time. Meantime, a restricted State Department memo explains the obvious about "liberation": a US takeover of Iraq will not foster democracy there or elsewhere in the Middle East, which in any event will not be acceptable to the US given the strength of public feeling against the US. Cheney was on TV yesterday lying about Iraq's nuclear weapons program, without mentioning that the US case that it has been "revived" has been thoroughly demolished by UN inspectors, who also proved that the documents the US used as evidence were fakes.

Robert Sheer's column in this morning's LA Times puts it bluntly: the first Iraqi hurt by US bombing will be a victim of a war crime.

The US is about to embark upon the most flagrant act of international aggression since Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.

[BruceZ]

So for 12 years Iraq has not been able to conquer even it's own country

Yeah, the gassing of 5000 Kurds got a lot of bad PR, so they've had to settle for more subdued methods like mass executions, torturing and raping of dissenters, sending videotapes of tortures to relatives of the dissenters, etc. Actually we could learn something from the way he handles dissenters...just kidding. Though one of the main reasons Saddam has let things go this far is because he turns on CNN and sees all the protests by the peace woosies. He holds almost no cards, and yet he is outplaying us because he sees that we are divided.

and has neither funneled WMD destruction to terrorists nor supported any terrorist act against the U.S.

Notwithstanding the plot to assasinate the first Bush and the payment of 25K to families of homicide bombers.

I understand that Robert Sheer is the most left-wing journalist allowed to write for a major newspaper in the whole country.

[adios]

Indeed who in their right mind would expect Saddam to disarm voluntarily and turn over his stockpile of WMD's and the materials to make them.

[Chris Alger]

"Yeah, the gassing of 5000 Kurds got a lot of bad PR..."

Not where it counted. After the gassing at Halabja in March 1988, not only did the US fail to condemn the attack, but "the pro-Iraq lobby ... succeeded in getting the White House to frustrate the Senate's attempt to penalize Baghdad for violating the Geneva Protocol on chemical Weapons, which it had signed."[1] In fact, the 1988 gassing followed five years of Iraq's ust of chemical munitions against Iran without a peep of protest from the US. In reward for these atrocities, the US restablished diplomatic ties with Iraq and "provided intelligence and planning assistance to the Iraqi army."[2] Given US applause for similar atrocities against Kurds by the Turks and its professed commitment to the continued "territorial integrity" of Iraq, as US regime in Baghdad is likely to increase the level of violence against seperatist Kurds if they refuse to follow orders. As for aggression against Iran, the next target on the US hit list will likely the same fate that it did in the 1980's.

"so they've had to settle for more subdued methods like mass executions, torturing and raping of dissenters, sending videotapes of tortures to relatives of the dissenters, etc."

Mimicking the Turks and the Israelis, who are generously rewarded for their behavior by the US, proving that these crimes are of no concern to our leaders and those who support them.

"Notwithstanding the plot to assasinate the first Bush ..."

Seymour Hersh demolished this likely fabrication in The New Yorker, noting also that it wasn't widely believed even in US government circles at the time. To date, the US has released no firm evidence that it ever occurred.

"and the payment of 25K to families of homicide bombers."

No, payment of $25K to all Palestinian "martyrs," meaning any Palestinian killed for any reason during the intifada, including homicide bombers, less than 3% of the recipients. Your propaganda sources persistently neglect to mention this fact because it detracts from the warmongering value, and encourages people to accept comical enlargments of the half-truth, such as Saddam creating a "cottage industry" of suicide bombing, as though the bombers commiting suicide were driven by the promise of material gain.

"I understand that Robert Sheer is the most left-wing journalist allowed to write for a major newspaper in the whole country."

Right, that's what's important: not the merit of the arguement, but where it falls along the spectrum of conventional opinion.

[1] Dilip Hiro, Iraq In the Eye of the Storm, 2002, p. 238
[2] Id., citing P. Tyler in the NY Times, 8/18/88

[BruceZ]

No, payment of $25K to all Palestinian "martyrs," meaning any Palestinian killed for any reason during the intifada, including homicide bombers, less than 3% of the recipients.

Oh, I guess that's OK then.

Right, that's what's important: not the merit of the arguement, but where it falls along the spectrum of conventional opinion.

You didn't give an argument; you gave an opinion, so I thought I'd point out that this is the opinion of a left-wing fanatic so people can give it its due consideration. It's important to realize that people like that are biased towards opposing war almost independently of the circumstances.

Incidentally, that guy's words are readable from Bhagdad. If his show of US division is helpful to the enemy, I'm not exactly sure why that doesn't constitute treason. We've hung people for less [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[MMMMMM]

Maybe this was "pre-ordained" because Iraq should have been forcibly disarmed long ago, and Saddam's ruling party of thugs disintegrated. More than a bit overdue, IMO.

This specific meeting and it's content may also have been "pre-ordained"(;-)) due to the inevitability of foot-dragging, appeasement, and conflicts of economic interests of the international community.

It's also probably pre-ordained that Saddam will come to a nasty end. Too bad however that he has been allowed to inflict so much great suffering and death before his own.