A good fold, or weak?

[Wyrm2]

Pretty standard, but slightly loose Party 1/2. SB is very loose PF and decent post-flop. Other limpers are pretty standard folk.

Party Poker 1/2 (10 handed)
Hero has Ah, Ad and is MP3

MP1 limps, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls

Flop(8 SB): Td, 8c, Qs

SB bets, BB folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls

Turn(7 BB): Jh

SB bets, Hero folds


Is this a weak fold? The Jack scared me after the 3 bet. I put the SB on a pair and maybe a gutshot draw with the lead bet, but the 3 bet made me nervous about all sorts of scary things [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] After the Jack hit I thought it unlikely that I was best here.

Comments? Results to follow. (He flashed his hand)

[gcue]

wow that's a hard one, I think you have to call this down sometimes to make sure your opponents don't try to run you over with something like AQ, not to mention you have 4 definite good outs (K's) and 8 possible other outs (2 A's and the 6 cards that could pair the board and not give him a FH assuming he's on 2pr)


I'm interested to see what everyone here says though

[ramjam]

I think it's a bad fold. There's a reasonable chance that the SB could have just AQ or KQ (or a Q with an even weaker kicker) in which case you're still ahead. If he has two pair, his hand could easily be counterfeited. If he has a straight, you have four outs to a bigger straight (plus the chance of a possible split). Even if he has a set, you still have two outs to top set.

Putting it all together (and mainly because of the first two points) I'd definitely want to see the river for 8/1 and I'd be planning on calling there at effective odds of 9/2.

[Clarkmeister]

You cannot fold there. Many players will play TP/TK this aggressively, figuring its good. You will be good a bunch of the time, and the rest of the time you will have at least 2 and usually 8 outs when the turn comes.

Now as far as this specific hand, I realize this is a particularly bad turn card, but I'm still not folding. In fact, given the fact that AK just "got there" I may even raise. First, I may be in the lead, but be very vulnerable, and second, I could definitely make a better hand fold, even in a very LL game. If I get 3-bet I can definitely fold safely.

[GuyOnTilt]

I'd raise and fold to a 3-bet. If I'm just called, I check through on the river without improving to 2-pair or better (not including the Q pairing). You can definitely make a better hand fold here, and there's still a remote chance you're in the lead. If you're behind two pair, then you have outs. If you have no outs, you'll be 3-bet and can safely muck your hand.

GoT

[Wyrm2]

Thanks all, I'm trying to get used to the fact that there are slightly more aggressive players at 1/2 then at .50/1

SB showed me KQ, just to rub in my face how weak I played, but I wanted to make sure that I was playing weak rather then just being annoyed at folding the best hand.

[josie_wales]

GoT,
Great advice. Very well written. And I like how the majority of your responses to peoples questions start with: "Raise"

Your suggestions have helped me a lot, GoT,
Thanks
Josie Wales

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise and fold to a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think it would be worthwhile to call and hope to spike a K?

[Rico Suave]

Hey wyrm:

Tough hand. I might have played it a bit differently. I think I would have capped the flop, and then fold to a turn bet if I did not improve or have a draw. You said that the guy plays decent post flop, so if you cap the flop he has to know that you have at least TPTK, and more likely an overpair. His turn bet into your cap would seem that he can beat those hands.

That being said, I would have called after the turn thinking I had 6 outs to the winner.

Does anyone else think this play has merit? or is it too weak?

--Rico

[GuyOnTilt]

You don't think it would be worthwhile to call and hope to spike a K?

Bleh. Of course, you are correct. You should call the 3-bet and fold the river without spiking your 4-outer. Getting 12:1 on your turn call is more than enough. Good catch.

GoT