Neat flop play with AK, flopping a pair.

[rgschackelford]

I was playing a low limit game, and there were three players in with me. I got AK in middle position. I raised preflop, and got three callers. The flop came A-4-5, with two diamonds. I had every intention of raising, but the guy in front of me raised. So, I smooth called. The turn brought a queen, and he bet out again, and this time I raised him. It was called by the other two (one guy got out on the flop), and I bet and got one bet on the river. I won the pot. I felt that my flop play won me an extra bet or more (I gained two with the check-raise on the turn, and lost one on the flop by not raising). How about this way to play a flopped pair with AK?

[crego20]

I think on this board you should raise the flop to protect your hand. You will probably kill some of your action, and
the flush draws aren't going anywhere, but you would like to make people pay to draw to their gutshots, etc..now
if the flop had been A 7 2 rainbow that would be different.

Given the way you played the flop the turn cr looks standard.

[rgschackelford]

That would be the normal play. But, if the one guy was going to raise on the flop, and just got called, he would bet the turn, too. So, he most likely is not on a draw, and probably has A-weaker kicker. So, when the turn is bet, I raise, charging the other guy two bets to see a river. It's not like I'm check-raising a guy behind me, I'm sandbagging to charge more on the turn, and make the A-weaker kicker hands pay off. I was debating what I did, but I still feel I made the right decision, since the initial bet would be in front of me.

Thank you.

[crego20]

Exactly, with the bet in front of you, charge the other guy
2 bets to draw to whatever it is he is drawing to, the guy with the weak Ace sounds like he'll call the rest of the way.

If you do let people see the turn cheap, don't complain when they suck out on you [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Anyway, I think that you do have to mix it up some, and this is probably as good a way as any, but there are so many turn cards that could kill your action(any diamond, another straight type card), that you should go ahead and get the bets in now, while you have the best of it. That's just me, and I'm just learing so take it for what its worth.

[rgschackelford]

My feeling on this hand was that first, there weren't very many good draws out there. A straight draw was technically possible, but you'd have to be playing junk cards to do that. There was a diamond flush draw out there, but you figure with ten bets in after it leaves me, they're still getting odds to draw out even if I raise. (10:1 without a raise 5.5:1 after I raise) And besides, the odds of one of the three having two diamonds would be relatively low. If the flop were coordinated, I would have raised. But since it wasn't, bada-bing bada-boom*.

*I am in no way affiliated with any form of the Mafia. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[crego20]

Ok, you won a big pot and are happy with the play.

I like it too, just wanted to play with some ideas.

Think about this, you raise the 3rd cold caller may
decide, 78s is worth a call in this spot. Now on the
flop he's got a gutshot about 11-1 or so. He's right to
call(with the implied odds) and see the turn, if you raise
he isn't. This pot looks like its getting big, and I want
to win it, save this play for small pots or less opponents.

Thanks for putting up with my thinking out loud.

[rgschackelford]

Honestly, i believe both plays are borderline. Mine you could lose a bigger pot, with yours you could miss out on a few bets. The pot was in that gray area between a small pot and a large pot. Also, what you said about mixing it up is a good point, too. Anyway, thanks for listening to me yap, too. Have a good one, and good luck at the tables.

[AngryCola]

The hand details are a bit too muddled for me, but every play like this feels and looks good when you drag the pot. But that doesn't mean it's the most solid way to do things.

You seem interested in this play more because of how it turned out than the reasoning behind each move. That's not good.

[rgschackelford]

Au contraire (or however it's spelled). My main reasoning is this: The flop didn't look too scary. Second of all, I had every intention of betting anyway. So, if someone does it for me, why don't I wait for the turn to charge them double? If the board were A-J-T with two diamonds, then a plethora of straights are possible, and I would be raising until everyone folds, or I decide I'm already behind. Yes, the straight is possible, but not probable. You would have to had called a preflop raise with a 2, a 3, 63, 73, 86, or 87 to have some kind of a straight draw. The only reason I waited until the turn to make the raise was because I felt the flop was not scary, and the likelihood of making a draw was relatively low. The diamond draw was there, but even raising gives someone to draw to the fourflush (approx. 5.5:1 odds on a 4.2:1 draw). If someone makes the flush, I just lose a little less money my way. I know it's a sin to give someone a free card, but they're going to call with the flush draw anyway, and most likely won't have a straight draw. Besides, I'm not praying that some guy opens the betting behind me, I know someone will bet in front of me. If they don't bet the turn, I bet it anyway.

Furthermore, there are other factors, such as my table image. I was betting my good hands, and check-calling my profitable draws. In other words, straightforward poker. If I'm calling the bet, instead of raising, they'll think that maybe I'm on the come, or they won't even notice me at all. When you are considering drawing to a hand, and some who raised preflop raises the flop, are you thinking about that other guy at the other end of the table who throws in a call? If you are, then hats off. If I can lay low for a round, and wake up with a raise on the turn (which was a rag) I'll catch them off guard, or even think I have that low pair. I had a friend who would do what I did, and let people bet while she thought (You unsuspecting halfwits! I'm gonna drop the bomb on you all next round MWHAHAHAHAHAHA!). The only thing scarier thant a raise from someone else would be a call from her. This paralyzed flop action, but also gave me an edge over the unsuspecting halfwits. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Anyway, I just felt that it was a good decision at the time, and it worked out well. Maybe we should take it up with Dave or Mason. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
My main reasoning is this: The flop didn't look too scary. Second of all, I had every intention of betting anyway. So, if someone does it for me, why don't I wait for the turn to charge them double?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
. If someone makes the flush, I just lose a little less money my way. I know it's a sin to give someone a free card, but they're going to call with the flush draw anyway, and most likely won't have a straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I try not to get too involved in strategy discussions these days.

However, I will point out the fact that there are errors in the above lines of thinking.

Remember, you were asking people what they thought about your play.
If you are seeking validation, it's better to admit it at the beginning of the thread.