Two hands

Here are two hands I played in yesterday's £100 + rebuys Pot-Limit Hold-Em tournament yesterday. 140 runners, £32K prize pool, standard payout structure. They are actually consecutive hands in the game but that's not important. I have 5000 chips which is around average, the blinds are 200-400 and the game is reasonably tight although there are a couple of loose spots.


#1 it is folded around to me in the cut-off (one before the button). The button has a big stack and is making a few loose calls ; the SB is a super-duper-rock ; and the BB is a good, aware player with more chips than me. I am not going to be raising with "any 2" in this spot. I find KdQd and flat call. SB completes, BB checks. Flop ATd7d. Both check smoothly without showing any great interest. I bet 1000, they both fold.


#2 Next hand. The new BB is playing very, very tight and has about 3000 chips. This time I'm going for "any 2" if it is folded to me, which it is. I find 85 off which meets the necessary criteria so I make it 1200 to go. Loose caller who is now in the cut-off calls the others fold. Flop T87 with two clubs. I bet the pot, 3000, he gives it some considerable thought and folds, telling me later (Doh !) he had AJ.


There are other ways to play these hands. What is interesting to me is that I played both of them differently to how I would have played them last week. In between I have read TPFAP. I will solicit any comments before explaining my thinking, in each case I am using concepts derived from the book and modified to meet my own game, hopefully in a valid way.


What do you think ?


Andy.

in hand#1 you are in the cut-off, so presumably you have the button in #2, so how can the cut-off in #2 call you if the action had already folded around to you ? If i have read it wrong I am sorry, i am easily confused, but you did say the hands were consecutive? you must mean loose boy is in SB, but then what is his action in hand#1 after you flat call with KQ, he must have folded but you don't say. Please be gentle. I am a beginner, and enjoy your posts.

Button moves to your left, so if you're the cutoff in #1, you're two off the button in #2...

You don't tell us how many players are left at this point (although at these blinds I would assume about 1/3 of the field is left?) but...


Hand #1: Pretty straightforward, well played - guess you can consider a raise BTF, but nice...


Hand #2: I don't see the point in risking chips on A2C at this point. I mean, nice hand, well played, you won the chips, etc. Clearly I can't make any real assumptions about your situation and you might have seen something in the other players that made this the right thing to do at this time, but in general I don't like the play at this point in the tournament. You already said the guy on your left was making loose calls with his big stack so was it a big surprise that he called your raise? Now you bet out at a flop with middle pair and are left with T$1600 and are essenitally pot committed if the guy calls you. I think it's too big a risk to take at this stage of the tournament - you've got plenty of chips to wait for a better situation.

Andy,


Being the first to bet with only two players in the pot is pretty powerful. Especially, since you had caught part of the flop. If it does not look like you are running over the table, you will get respect especially from tight players that are playing their cards.


I noticed that you followed Sklansky's recommendation of not turning a good hand into 7-2 when you played your KQ.


So, how does it feel to play this way?


Good Luck


Mark

Andy

It is interesting to speculate on how you would have played prior to your reading of TPFAP.


Hand 1 Raise I think

Hand 2 Muck unless you had a very big stack.


Must get hold of this book


ross

Pretty much, although it's not entirely clear cut.


Hand 1) Yes it is connected with the "don't turn AQ into 72" concept although it's not exactly the same, more of a common theme. It is very bad for me to raise and get re-raised by TT, AJ or nothing at all, I will have to pass, and the big blind is capable of making all these reraises. If I call and a single raise comes in I am happy to call it and see a flop, unless it comes from Rocky McRock in the SB. I have been fumbling my way towards this kind of play, I might have made it anyway because it ties in with several bluffing concepts best expressed by John Fox in PPQWASTN (mainly keeping the pot small and making them think it is "your" pot). The other point of interest is that I could consider checking the flop as well because I don't want to get raised off my flush draw either - but I think a bet is just going to win this pot straight away almost all the time.


2) Last week I would definitely have passed. However one of the more subtle points of TPFAP is that it actually downplays some "well-known" tournament concepts about surviving and avoiding confrontation. DS is clear that unless you are much better than the field (top 10% I'm guessing) you can't afford to pass up +EV situations in the early and middle stages. Without going into the details of the particular hand, yes there is a lot of risk but I have so many different ways to win I'm sure the both plays (pre-flop and flop) are +EV. A player who I respect and would not bullsh*t me told me he places me around the 25% mark at this level (25% of the field better than me, 75% worse) and I concur. Too often in the past I have played big tournaments like I play small ones, where I definitely do have a big edge and can wait.


We have a £200 comp tonight where I will try again. In general both plays (and other similar) feel good to me and I will keep it going. Ross, you have to buy this book. Hopefully you and I will be the only people in the UK who have it :-)


Andy.

Andy,


Hopefully, you will stay in the U.K. [img]/images/wink.gif[/img]


Anyway, I have just finished my first reading through the book, and am quite surprized how good the information in the book is for No-Limit Hold'em, Limit Hold'em, and Limit 7CS. I was somewhat disappointed, because I wanted to see more examples for Omaha 8B, and there was nothing for 7CS H/L.


Furthermore, I like the John Fox book, because it mainly deals with psychology.


Good luck tonight Andy.


Mark

Hi Andy,


I must admit, that I haven´t read TPFAP yet. Anyway, I was a little surprised about the way hand 1 was played out. I think that if I was in the BB i might have come over the top after your flop bet for all your (and my) money with any 2 cards. (Given that I can put you very likely on a hand without an Ace, since you didn´t raise preflop first in in the cut off). The BB had a freeroll and could just have anything. So it would be a tough call for you without a very, very strong hand/draw (which of course you had in this hand).


I admit, that this strategie is risky and you can´t use it very often, still I think it is a +EV-Strategy when made against the right opponents (good aggressive players) at the right time. Although I probably will have to rethink it, since it seems that because of TPFAP players start to smoothcall preflop more.


Regards


Martin

Mark,


It's funny you should say that because I was playing the 7C8OB tournament on Pokerstars last night and it was quite difficult to think about reconciling the strategies in TPFAP with the need to play aggressively in 7C8 in many situations, when you need to maximize your chances of winning the whole pot. I need more practice to come to grips with this.


And I just love the Fox book, it rocks !


Andy.