Top pair bad kicker against a tight player

gopnik · #1 08-09-2005, 10:04 PM

UTG+1 is a very tight player.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero...?

teajay · #2 08-09-2005, 10:56 PM

Against a very tight player I would fold this.

First I typed a big post saying I would call and see the turn but then I changed my mind.

You have three 9's and about 1.5 outs for the BD flush draw. I wouldn't count all the Ks as outs because if villain is very tight, he's probably holding one and if you DO spike a set your kicker is still in play and just as bad as before. So I would give you a total of about 4 outs, and you're only getting 7:1.

You have 4 players to act behind you, and having to call a raise here sucks, because then you're certain you're even further behind.

A very borderline situation IMO, but I'd fold.

bozlax · #3 08-09-2005, 11:03 PM

Tight aggro, tight passive, or weak-tight?

Against the first, I raise. The second, I fold. The third I call and try to raise the turn.

GTSamIAm · #4 08-09-2005, 11:09 PM

Raise or fold. If he's tight, fold and wait for a better shot. Raising isn't so bad since you have a backdoor flush draw, though.

Harv72b · #5 08-09-2005, 11:21 PM

This is why they don't recommend limping K9s from MP1. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You need to define your read on UTG+1 a little better if you want good advice here. All I can say is that my standard line here would be to raise the flop (folding to a 3-bet behind me), bet the turn if checked to (folding to a raise there UI), and check through/check call the river UI. But this line changes greatly depending on how aggressive UTG+1 is.

gopnik · #6 08-10-2005, 12:18 AM

Unfortunately I don’t really have any other reads on UTG+1. After about 100 hands I don’t really remember him playing anything at all, so I assumed he was very tight.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero ???

livinitup0 · #7 08-10-2005, 12:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is why they don't recommend limping K9s from MP1. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You need to define your read on UTG+1 a little better if you want good advice here. All I can say is that my standard line here would be to raise the flop (folding to a 3-bet behind me), bet the turn if checked to (folding to a raise there UI), and check through/check call the river UI. But this line changes greatly depending on how aggressive UTG+1 is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect. Dont fold the flop, but you shouldnt have seen it to begin with, your position sux.

GTSamIAm · #8 08-10-2005, 12:38 AM

Dude, you're toast.

bozlax · #9 08-10-2005, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, you're toast.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you honestly think that Villan has the case king? I'd say he's more likely to have AT or some such, and trying to scare you off it. If he has KT or TT, you're toast, otherwise you have outs (not enough, granted, to make the pot right, but enough to give you some cushion for the few times you DON'T have the best hand).

Call the turn. Call a river bet or bet/call if checked to and raised.

deception5 · #10 08-10-2005, 11:34 AM

This is a clear calldown after the turn check/raise.