Heads up on the river

Guy McSucker · #1 08-20-2003, 07:02 AM

I'm wondering what you guys would do in this situation against a generic unknown player.

I sit in a 50c-$1 NL game online with $100 and post a late position blind. Most stacks are between $70 and $130.

I get KJo. A few people call, I check, button calls, blinds check.

Flop comes K-J-8 rainbow.

SB leads $4 into a $6 pot. One player calls. I decide to test the waters and raise to $20. Button calls, other two fold.

Turn is a J. Only KK and JJ beat me now. No preflop raise means I am almost 100% sure I am ahead and almost can't be outdrawn.

I check. He checks behind. Should I have bet this?

River is a blank, not completing any of the straight draws on the flop. I have $79 left and my opponent has me covered. Pot is just over $50.

Your move?

Guy.

Hung · #2 08-20-2003, 07:17 AM

JJ can beat you? hahahaa. You have 5 jacks in your game?
Or what site was that? It must be rigged.

J/K.

There's no raise preflop. So if he has KK he must be very stupid. The guy on the buttons calls you. Someone on the button with KK must raise if he has so many limpers. So I do not believe he has KK. And even he he has KK, who cares. Go all the way. You should have bet on the turn. So if he's drawing he'll call for sure and you win extra money.
On the river you should bet the amount that invites him to raise or call. You've a winner.

Guy McSucker · #3 08-20-2003, 08:20 AM

JJ can beat you? hahahaa. You have 5 jacks in your game?

Oh yeah. Duh. Thanks!

Amazing what can go through your head when sitting in front of a computer.

One time in a home game a friend of mine did flop five 2s, which was quite exciting.

Guy.

sillyarms · #4 08-20-2003, 08:36 AM

I'd bet on the turn. However if I got myself in the same situation on the river. Either he was on a busted draw or he's got a hand that is inferior to yours such as J8, Jx, 88. If he was on a draw he won't pay off your bets. If he has trip J's he may or may not pay you off and if he has a full house he will pay you off. I'd check to induce a bluff and if he bets raise all in. I don't think he'll be able to not bet the trips or the full house after your checking the turn and the river, and he may bluff at the pot on a busted draw.

Magician · #5 08-20-2003, 08:48 AM

Bet the pot on the turn. KJo is hard to detect. If they muck on the turn they would've mucked on the river anyway.

Magician · #6 08-20-2003, 08:53 AM

My view is by check-raising on the flop you already showed strength. By betting the turn you are not giving up any more info and are more likely to be called then if you bet on the river. Some fish will call on the turn after being check-raised on the flop but will fold on the river when they miss their (crappy) draw. So get them to put the rest of their money in on the turn and if the other guy has KK you have to be willing to lose your stack that time.

Guy McSucker · #7 08-20-2003, 09:02 AM

I didn't check-raise the flop: I was in late position and just raised after SB bet and one player called. But I agree that I've already shown strength.

You're all bang on, I should bet the turn in the hope of getting a call from a drawing hand, and check the river to induce a bluff. Instead I checked the turn and bet the river thus ensuring I got no more money out of the hand.

It soon became apparent I don't have my wits about me when I imagined JJ was a possibility.

Guy.

Al_Capone_Junior · #8 08-20-2003, 09:37 AM

When he cold calls you on the flop, there are two possibilities. First, he might have a str8 draw, which is what you want him to have. Second, he might have a set of eights, which would be bad. He cold called, which could describe how someone woudl play either hand.

On the turn, you fill, and it appears as if you have a lock. I would bet again, tho not a huge amount. I would probably bet about enough to give him the "proper" implied odds to draw at a str8, or about 1/3-1/2 of the pot. Another $20 should do just fine (you wouldn't want to bet less than your last bet or it would look too suspicious). He will almost certainly call you with a str8 draw, or call or raise you with his freshly made smaller full house. Notice also that betting the turn DISGUISES the fact that you just made the boat. Either way, you can't lose unless he was slowplaying KK or JJ, in which case you will probably lose your stack, nothing that can be done about it.

On the river, the way you played it, you're kinda screwed, because now you can't get any more money out of him if he was on a str8 draw. I'd go ahead and bet, but betting the turn was the better play.

al