Micro Limit PP Players getting alot better?

Is it just me or is the quality of players playing .50-1$ at PP getting alot better. I am a frequent player at this level due to my tight student budget and the fact I am a relative newbie at Hold em. The players at 1-2 and above I believe are very good at Paradise, so it was good for me to keep the swings low and face poor players. I have been able to take out a consistent winning of over 5bb per hour at micro limits due to the competition but lately it seems the play has improved.


Anybody else notice this, or am I alone at this limit?


MisFit

It probably depends on the game you're in. At that limit most players are just messing around and passing time.

But I don't think you'll find the 1-2 any tougher.

I generally play $2/$4, but if I just want to relax, I sometimes play $.50/$1. It has been my experience that the lower levels are often harder to beat than the higher levels, but not because of better play. When the level of play gets TOO ludicrous, the implicit collusion factor seems to increase exponentially, making outcomes far more unpredictable.

I think the lower level games are getting tougher. I think there are a large number of very solid players who find they most consistently win at these levels. I can only conjecture, but possibly the mid-level games are so riddled with collusion that they are too hard to beat and so there is actually a shakeout with perfectly good midlimit players moving down to find a beatable game. Also there is the difficulty with buying in that deters new players who find they can't just use a credit card and get discouraged by the paypal/firepay registration hoops, which restricts the pool to some degree to veteran players. Poker is a bottom feeding economy and when the bottom dries up the middle becomes the new bottom and only the toughest get fed.

I've noticed that the average pot size per hand, at around 11pm PST, used to be that you could find a few tables at around $8 per full handed table at the .50-1 limit. After the PL and NL games, it dropped to $6-$7 per full handed table at the .50-1 limit. I think there could possibly be a cause and effect here. This same phenomenom seemed to have happened when the 5-max tables opened up.


Hopefully, after a while, it will reach some sort of equilibrium.


- Tony

Low limit games are much softer at other sights. Check out pokerroom.com, partypoker.com, and wsex.com. Paradise may have the coolest software and bells and whistles, but I play poker to make money not be entertained. Why do u play?


Jeff

No... I don't think so. The fact is, the players on PP up to 5-10 generally have no idea what they're doing. I say generally, don't want to offend anyone here who might play at those limits and actually know what they're doing [img]/images/smile.gif[/img]


The fact of the matter is, most players below the limits I have described can't play. They THINK they can play, but that's not quite the same thing. My advice to you is that if you find they are "getting tougher" or actually represent some competition you need to work on your game. Not trying to be insulting but it's true. I generally play 10-20 or 15-30 at regular casinos and the level is a little harder, but not much (game selection here is key, trust me). Here's an example of how some low limit PP players think they're good, but really aren't. If you see yourself in any of these examples, you might want to do some examining yourself.


1. Cold calling raises- this is one of the easiest ways to tell, IMO, if someone knows what's up. WHen you see people cold call a raise when not in the blinds and turn over KJ, QJ, Q10 (my personal pet peeve, always get run down by that hand) and esp AQ (see numerous 2+2 books, among others, about why you shouldn't be playing AQ against a raiser in general), you know they THINK they know what's going on, but don't. ESP AQ- that is a big test hand. The good players can toss that away w/out a second thought to a raise- but I see people at microlimit PP routinely playing it like it was AK. One could make an argument that if you know what you're doing, you could theoretically outplay the fools from the flop on and perhaps make money with AQ- but as we all know it's hard to outplay an idiot sometimes. You can save bets, etc but you're generally not going to get him off his hand. Anyway, that's a discussion for another place.


2. Any two suited. Enough said.


3. The general passiveness of the game. This is not so much a criticism as it is a statement- and you obviously can use this to your advantage. Limp more with suited connectors and other hands that can pay big- you'll almost always see the flop cheap. Sometimes it is very obvious that someone is on a draw but they don't get punished as they should- it's almost like you can see the opponents thinking, "well, he's here anyways, so I might as well not bet in case he gets there, so I can save money" lol. At higher limits frequently don't get the chance to limp, and if you do you're going to get raised. Until I see more aggression at low limit PP, I assume the overall quality ain't that high.


Anyway, good luck to you in your games.


Leon

I appreciate the honest words. I do not claim to be a great, or even a good player. I am still learning the ropes of poker, only played in a B&M Casino once and was almost too nervous to bet. I am trying to learn and become a decent player, the micro limits offer me a chance to get some experience at a level that I can afford and am comfortable with.


No offense taken with the remarks, I can definately relate to the 2nd point you made.


MisFit

Leon, do you really play paradise 2/4 ?


I would like to play in the loose passive games you are talking about. Most paradise 2/4 is tight in my experience.


And I hardly ever see anyone coldcall a raise with something like QT except in the BB. (maybe to many are playing them in late middle position without raising when first in.)


I completely disagree with your AQ test. If I am after a raise from late position I will reraise.


I will only throw away AQ, when the raises come from early position.


Kim

The cold calling thing is an interesting point; In a tough game I wouldn't cold call from the big blind with AQ if that was going to put me heads up against a tough early position raiser; but in a loose Paradise game where not only may the raiser be raising with KT or something, but a lot of people are calling with garbage also, it could be ok to see the flop for one extra bet.

In regards to making money, playing micro-limit online sounds like a dismal way to make money, even if you are doing well and making 3-5 BB/hr, you may as well sweep floors somewhere, where at least you can make that kind of money without swings. The higher limits online, of course, take the kind of skills Leon was mentioning.