I freeze up on the flop with top two

#1 10-07-2005, 11:52 PM

PF raiser is a LAG, flop better looks like a good TAG. Now, my thought process was to give one of the other players a chance to tell me my hand is no good on the flop. Should I be bumping it up straight away instead? I feel horrible letting others a chance to draw somewhat cheaply, but I was lost. I blame inexperience.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$200) (9 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2.00, UTG+1 calls $2.00, 1 folds, Hero calls $2.00, 2 folds, Button raises to $8.00, 1 folds, BB calls $6.00, UTG calls $6.00, UTG+1 calls $6.00, Hero calls $6.00.

Flop: ($41.00) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $30.00, Hero calls $30.00, Button folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: ($101.00) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $70.00

#2 10-08-2005, 12:01 AM

Yeah, calling is no good on the flop. This is the definition of a draw heavy flop.

Bump it to about $100, and then get the money in on the turn on just about any turn card. Maybe not the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

You could even overbet all in on the flop, if you think your opponenents can put you on a semi-bluff.

If TAG has 88, sucks, but you are paying him.

Riposte · #3 10-08-2005, 12:05 AM

I like to raise the flop to about $75. Two pair is tricky. If you are reraised by the button it might be time to fold.

As you played it, looks like the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] scared him. My instinct is to bet here, but maybe it's better to check. If he's got the flush or a set, you'll just be giving him more money. If he doesn't have the flush, you're hopefully ahead and can get him to maybe bet on the river by checking. If he was really scared of the flush and you bet, he'll think you have it and fold. Checking gives you a chance to make more money, and potentially saves you money against his made flush/set by calling a reasonable river bet from him.

Riposte · #4 10-08-2005, 12:09 AM

I can't stop watching your damn avatar.

#5 10-08-2005, 12:10 AM

I don't like your figure of $75, if it's folded back to TAG he's got better than 3:1 to call. If he calls, do you completly give up on a turn club?

#6 10-08-2005, 12:10 AM

yes it is hypnotic

#7 10-08-2005, 12:18 AM

Thanks, even though I play limit I knew it was horrible as soon as I called. Just needed some reinforcement.

Riposte · #8 10-08-2005, 12:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your figure of $75, if it's folded back to TAG he's got better than 3:1 to call. If he calls, do you completly give up on a turn club?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that figure sucks, $100 is better. When the donk calls and the club falls - if he bets I fold, if he checks I check.

mayesie · #9 10-08-2005, 12:52 AM

Why would you think your hand is no good on the flop? The only realistic hand that's ahead is 88.

With this many players seeing the flop, raise it to 90.00 or so. You'd really like to isolate UTG+1 on this draw-happy board. Taking the pot right here would also be good.

The turn card appears scary, but your opponent is probably just as worried about it as you (hence the 3/4 pot bet on the flop). I like the turn bet. I'd like to think that UTG+1 is laying down after your turn bet, but something's telling me that didn't happen! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

#10 10-08-2005, 12:54 AM

Nah, he folded. He was a pretty good TAG.

I was seeing monsters, thinking original raiser could have KK/JJ/88, obviously many more combinations they could have that I beat than what I'm behind too. Still kicking myself.

That said, if original preflop raiser goes all in after we reraise to $100, does anyone fold?