Image, Emotion, and Frame of Mind.......HELP....

[devilsshadow]

First of all...thanks for checkin out my question, and, hopefully, thanks in advance for your thoughts and consideration...

I've been playing online poker for roughly eight months now. I began playing b/c I snooped around while visiting my mother's home and found her computer with a poker site open. To be brief, I knew my mother was NOT an expert gambler or poker player and checked her accout to see she had blown over $400 in a month.

Now, I realize $400 in a month is not a lot for many who are on this site - perfectly understood - and, also perfectly understood that I will hear 2 suggestions regarding bankroll building and game selection following my impending questions... My family, at least the nuclear part, is poor, not wretchedly poor; but, poor...$400 is a lot for non-professional players in most cases unless they have a lucrative career of some sort. At any rate, again to be brief, let's say that I haven't, myself, fit in quite well with the "structure" of society I was born into and, though I am grateful for my life in America, for many reasons, have found it difficult to succeed through "traditional" means despite being an exceedingly bright and multi-talented individual. To sum this part up; I began playing to "save Mum's ass," and as a way to put my brilliant mathematical mind to the test (and my gawd that rust is hard to clean off after being out of school a couple years) and to also test my hard earned education in psychology.

For the first couple months, using only common sense and intuition, I remained at roughly break even, but, found enough reward and evidence to believe that this could potentially be a great path to take for a spell. Now, all I had to do is repeat the same process that validated my intelligence in high school---grab the books----cram----assimilate info faster and better than everyone around and become rich....LOL....you can laugh with me...it's a hoot....LOL...holy [censored]...Okay, period overkill

After reading SSII and Hellmuth, my first week DID in fact fuel that seemingly grandiose delusion (which still remains as an oasis in a never before seen half vapor/half solid form)...The first week after my cram session with Phil and Doyle brought me to 25 out of 33 final tables and increased my bankroll from $50 to $1000...I was on fire...every decision I made was correct; and, unfortunately I can't get back to that point...

All of the wins were on the same site, which will remain unnamed (if you do enough digging I'm sure you could find me)...but here's the thing I'm pretty well known around the site...the second week I noticed that, all of a sudden, nearly ALL my bets were being called (aside from the fact that this site in particular seems to have more calling stations than any online)---it didn't matter whether I was in a ring game or a MTT---if I had AA or 2-7...I couldn't win a freakin pot anywhere (not entirely true) because so many people called me down, I found myself in 6 way pots routinely with people who had played against me a lot and would get my big cards cracked by ANY hand that had ANY potential at all - any two suited to and two to a straight...it was insane and nearly drove me insane - I concluded that many of the regulars who had taken to calling me down were sick of seeing me at the final table of every tournament over the last week and simply decided they were going to see what all my betting was about, even if it cost them $500...

As quickly as my bankroll rose - it tumbled - hard - very hard - in one hand - I can't recall what site had the "bad-beat-o-meter," but this one was off the scale and registered as "soul crushing." In a $2/$4 ring game there were at least 3 raises preflop (at a VERY loose table) before it got to my SB where I held AsAc...KNOWING I would get called by the types at the table, I through down a pot bet of roughly $75 and received two callers from UTG and seat 6....flop came 2s-6c-10c...UTG checks...seat six leads with a gutless $50 bet...at this point, having just under $500 left and not wanting to give up a $300 pot to some schmuck on a flush draw, I pushed all in with my aces...UTG folds and seat 6 calls his entire stack with 10s-Jh...

turn -10d
river -10h

Bye bankroll, it was fun...You might be thinking, "But, you had only lost half your roll, didn't you?" Well, yes, for now, the other half went to the next hour of my first REAL experience with a dreaded disease called, "TILT."

Well; I "started over" of sorts after a 3 week break with only $10 in my account - worked it up to $200 and have remained break even for 3 months now - I'M NOT HAPPY WITH BREAK EVEN!!!!

Here's the thing - and the meat of the question - recently, on the same site, due to circumstance, wound up playing under my mother's account a few times...Though I've tried to install a new spine and a set of balls into my mother's poker play, it hasn't worked too well...for now she's happy with the break even supertight game - she makes NO reads, let alone does she ever act on them...Myself, I'm tight, not as tight as her (meaning I play more suited connectors, connectors, in unraised pots, I make plays on players and weak tight players etc.)--

what doesn't make sense to me is this - when I play MY game under HER name - it's near perfection - I almost never get called on any bluff despite the fact I play more hands than she does - I can buy pots left and right, I can trap with my huge hands and generally play near perfect poker under her name...nobody bluffs me, nobody raises me, nobody is hunting for my head...

WHY?

Have I built an image as the guy to take out under my own account to the point where I can't play a real game of poker there anymore? WTF? I would GREATLY appreciate any advice, tips, stories or whatever regarding image in ONLINE PLAY!!! B n M is a different story...I would like advice in online play only (how many actually pay attention? do most even know what to do against certain players?)

Emotion.

Simply - My life is loaded with stressors right now, cancer in the family, dramatic relationships, etcetera, etcetera e nauseum - quite frequently my head is overstressed by the time I sit down to play my first tourney of the week/day or whatever...How much effect can a players NON-POKER life have on their everyday play?

And, does anyone have any suggestions/exercises/articles they can suggest to help alleviate the leaks caused by Image, tilt, and non-poker related stressors???

I would really like to give myself a decent shot at testing my potential as a player - but I NEED TO BUILD THE BANKROLL AND GET OUT OF THESE $5/$10 BUY IN TOURNEYS.

Thanx again and peace,

Sean

[ace_in_the_hole]

............................c a l m b e f o r e t h e s t o r m...................

[nath]

I'm no expert but here are my thoughts.

You have to relax and approach the game with a clear head so you make the right decisions.
You have a lot going on right now. Either it has to be dealt with in such a way that it doesn't weigh on your mind while you play, or you have to find a practice or method that clears your head and allows you to stay focused and alert at the table. Many people have many different methods they prefer. I like a combination of exercising some time before I play, to use up any excess physical energy (since I'll be sitting for a long time and I don't want to be anxious or fidgety), and some kind of meditation or deep breathing right before I start (to make sure I stay relaxed and my brain is getting enough oxygen to not become anxious or annoyed-- patience is so crucial). If I notice myself steaming or getting agitated, I remind myself to relax, breathe deeply, play in the rhythm of the game, and don't force anything.

Also, don't take the bad luck or the play of others so personally. Sure, they might be targeting you, but I doubt that each of them has decided to look you up every hand you play just because they see you're winning. Whatever information can be gotten from that is certainly not worth blowing lots of money in bad situations.

I would recommend taking a break. You are very stressed out and it is affecting your play; either take time to deal with the stress in your life so it is no longer stress, or find a way that you can stay relaxed while playing poker (and for that matter, while dealing with the stress in your life). I told you mine; there are many. Try some out and find out what works for you. When you feel you can stay relaxed and approach the game with the clear head and poise that got you the results you first experienced, try again.

p.s. Sucks about the Aces, but it was probably a good lesson in not risking large chunks of your bankroll on one game or one hand. (I'm not much of a cash game player but I'm pretty sure $1000 is an inadequate roll for a $2/$4 NL game.)

p.p.s. It's very frustrating (and excessively time-consuming) to build a bankroll playing small stakes. If you have another, easier means of raising a bankroll suitable for the highest stakes you feel you can be a consistent winner, I would do it. Then proceed from there as your roll and success dictate.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
The first week after my cram session with Phil and Doyle brought me to 25 out of 33 final tables and increased my bankroll from $50 to $1000

[/ QUOTE ]

this was my favorite part

Simply put, do not -ever- play outside of what your bankroll safely allows. It may unknowingly affect your play, and even if it doesn't, you simply cannot handle the swings associated with bad beats. You played in a 2/4$ with a 1000 dollar bankroll? Grind it out on the .25/.50 or .50/1, perhaps 1/2, 2/4 however is somewhat high. Also, to be honest, I think you are giving many players too much credit, and are not trying to play on their level. You cannot apply much of brunson's and phil's (does his book even contain any useful information..? Besides him telling you to look into opponent's soul) play to the small buy-in tournaments simply because that information is centered around playing against better players, players capable of understanding your betting language, and players capable of folding. Stop trying to outplay these weaker players, and actually do it by playing solid standard poker, gap concept, position, making the most out of every chip getting situation, and laying down when behind, instead of trying to pull off big bluffs on donks that will call you ignoring everything you are trying to tell them through your bets. And read Harrington On Hold' Em Vol 1 - 2. You can apply a lot more of his concepts to the fields you are dealing with.

[LethalRose]

you just cant read a few books (old ones too) and expect to win money. you played well beyond your bank roll, eventually all players who do this bust.

[devilsshadow]

Just wanted to jump in and thank all those who have responded thus far...I've read some things I expected and some that I did not; either way, reading it is comforting on a very base level - particularly the validation that I was giving many opponents too much credit.

And, of course, the most "correct" analysis of my scenario was that I began playing at higher limits than my bankroll allowed.

To expound on what I thought was a very amusing comment questioning the practical use of Phil's book...lol...I'm still chuckling...I do agree that Phil's book does not offer nearly the volume of practical and useful strategy that is offered in the many diverse sections of SSII (worded as such in order to imply I feel that even strictly Hold 'Em players can learn a GREAT deal by reading the NON-Hold-Em sections). However, what Phil's book DOES do well, even better than SSII, is outline a very clear cut BEGINNERS strategy and a simple symbol based method for "reading" opponents with his animal types. I found Phil especially helpful in that he preaches PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE - but, the book does fall, in my mind (despite my admiration of the author), far short in its ability to communicate solid and content rich strategies for consistently winning anywhere, be it online or BnM...

Again, thank you all; and I wish you all the best.

Peace,

Sean

[zambonidrivr]

if your a good player you should be crushing the $10's and you will work your way out soon.

good luck

[jcm4ccc]

I enjoyed reading your post. It's very well written. And that's the last compliment I'm going to give you, so enjoy it.

I think the most important element of being a long-term poker player is having the right attitude. And, based on your post, I would say that your mother has a better chance of being a long-term winning player than you do

Let's examine everything that your mother is doing that is right, and everything that you are doing that is wrong. I'll quote directly from your post, and comment.


my mother had blown over $400 in one month

This doesn't mean much. Most of us lost money when we first started. $400 seems a reasonable amount to lose when you're learning the game.


For now, she's happy with the break even supertight game

See, your mother has improved. She's learned the first lesson, which is to tighten up preflop. More importantly, she's happy with being a break-even player, as she should be. For one, she is getting better. Also, a break-even player is actually a winning player, since you have to count the rake. So your mother is actually better than the average internet player.

she makes NO reads, let alone does she ever act on them

well, I'm sure she makes some reads, but for the most part she plays her hands rather than considering what her opponents might have. This is probably appropriate at her stage of development. If she keeps playing, the reads will happen naturally. She will start taking more chances with marginal hands (suited connectors, etc). She will discover that there is much more to this game than is apparent at first. She may even crack open a book or two. Eventually, she might start making a small profit. Or she might not. After all, there are worse things than being a break-even player.

And now you:

I began playing to "save Mum's ass"

Absolutely awful reason to start playing poker. You should not take up poker to make a profit--it's too difficult to do that, especially at the beginning. You would have been better to get a job at McDonald's and give your mom the proceeds from that.

I began playing . . . as a way to put my brilliant mathetmatical mind to the test and to also test my hard earned education in psychology

Hmmm, narcissism can be a useful trait for some players, but for the most part a bit of humbleness is better than narcissism. Because, on the Internet, you are playing against even more brilliant mathematicians (trust me) who have years of experience playing poker . You are not going to beat these guys, not for a very long time. Probably never. But you can make a decent profit eventually.

assimilate info faster and better than everyone around and become rich I know you're joking a bit, but I think there's also a grain of truth there. Read the comment above RE: narcissism.

as quickly as my bankroll rose, it tumbled hard, very hard You lost your bankroll in 2 hours? I think this is the narcissism at play again. Really, your mother knows better. How come you don't?

I'M NOT HAPPY WITH BREAK EVEN You should be. Listen, from what I've read, you don't sound like you are that great of a player. "ALL my bets were being called." Well, damn, if that's true, you should be cleaning up. Here's a hint. If the rest of the table thinks you are a maniac and are calling you down, TIGHTEN UP. It's that simple. Your argument that you can't win because everybody is playing loose around you is similar to those guys who argue that they can't beat the lower limits because everybody plays so lousy. Anybody who seriously believes that has a long way to go in their understanding of poker.

I've tried to install a new spine and a set of balls into my mother's poker play Leave your mother alone. She knows what she's doing.

Seriously, dude, I'm not suggesting that your mother is a great player or anything. I'm just saying that she has the right attitude and you don't. I would lay 10:1 odds that you will quit playing poker before she does.

I'd just like to say that I think everyone loses at least a couple hundred when they start.. I think most of us were in the situation where we learned enough about the game to make the transition from playing home games or play money games and wanted to play with some sort of money on the line for it to mean something (because playing poker with nothing on the line is just a crapshoot)..

I think we all go through some growing pains when first starting out, and it also takes a little time to find the level that you are comfortable at (and profitable).. After learning the hard way, now I just play really small buy-in tourneys and have a set amount of what to spend for the year.. if I lose, I'll cut my losses and not put any more money into it.. Although this is also a form of activity for me, it's kind of like "I can spend 10 bucks today playing a tourney or going to the movies", it's the same thing as long as you don't go beyond your bankroll