CR'ing when the flush hits

kurosh · #1 04-13-2005, 04:30 PM

Vilalin is 20/14/2.2

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.66 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.33 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.

River: (7.33 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets

Anyone lead the turn?

shant · #2 04-13-2005, 04:48 PM

I don't understand the flop call. Did you do that with the intention of check-raising the turn?

kurosh · #3 04-13-2005, 04:53 PM

I call the flop for several reasons.

1) He would, correctly, call a CR or bet from me with overs on the flop.
2) He is much more likely to fold a hand that beats me on the turn than on the flop.
3) If I'm ahead, my equity increases quite a bit on the turn.
4) I can represent certain hands (flush, trips) by betting or CR'ing the turn.
5) If the turn is an A, K or, to a lesser extent, a Q, I can be pretty sure I'm behind and check-fold.

sfer · #4 04-13-2005, 04:56 PM

I've been thinking about this hand and I think I like it. I'm going to think some more.

jnalpak · #5 04-13-2005, 05:05 PM

i like your thought with representing the different hands but what are your stats on UTG+2?

I've been finding myself trying this move with success against those with VPIP of <20%

I've been finding myself trying this move and losing against those with VPIP >30% these donks will call me down with the J or low pair even when i represent the made flush.

kurosh · #6 04-13-2005, 05:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Vilalin is 20/14/2.2

[/ QUOTE ]

over 1500 hands

kurosh · #7 04-13-2005, 05:11 PM

I was planning on CR'ing any non-ace or king and 50% of the time, a queen. The flush draw coming in was just an added bonus.

RacersEdge · #8 04-13-2005, 05:12 PM

I think I might like a turn bet a little more. You represent the same hand that way, but give less odds to call on the river.

sfer · #9 04-13-2005, 11:32 PM

Okay, so everything in this hand is really close and generally I like it, but it also illustrates some general problems with hand posts recently. In particular, making this kind of play, particularly the choice between checkraising and gaybetting the turn as well as value betting the river depend a ton on how prior hands have gone that you and/or him have played both each other or with the rest of the table. Your ability to fold him on the turn--and you want him to fold two overcards--hinges a lot on that, I think.

Pokey · #10 04-13-2005, 11:43 PM

So what does a 20/14/2.2 play this way?

The PF raise from UTG+2 indicates to me:
Huge overcards.
Medium or large pocket pairs.
Suited honors.

The flop bet is standard for any of these.
The turn bet tells me he's got something by now. I'm thinking unimproved overcards start to look like doggy doodoo at this point, what with the three-flush and board pair. The only unimproved overcards that I see playing this way are going to be with one spade.

He does slow down on the turn when you raise, meaning he's not invulnerable; I'd say that he hasn't made his flush yet and a jack beats him.

I like this river bet. You're representing a trap play, and a tricky tight player like villain is going to be exceedingly cautious about putting his foot in it now.

A few questions for you, though:

1. How do you play a spade on the river?
2. Does your answer change if it's the five of spades?
3. What about an A/K river card?