turn bet groovin?

oreogod · #1 05-01-2005, 08:02 PM

Alright so a villian is a friend of mine, we play together frequently enough that I know his three betting range is 77-AA, AQ AK...etc. Preflop 3 bet I was going with AK, but then I put him on AQ or 99, JJ. QQ I know he will call down, so Im not going to try this turn move if I think that is what he has. I just had a feeling the K is not a card he likes.

Either way I felt this was the only way Id win the pot. If I bloat it on the flop, he will call down...if I CR the turn he may fold, or call, check folding the river.

Anyway do u guys do the same or take a different line against a decent TAGish player?

Absolute Poker 5/10 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, 5 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises...

Nick C · #2 05-01-2005, 09:04 PM

It sounds like your turn checkraise is specifically aimed at JJ, and, given the range you provided, Villain will have something else a significant majority of the time.

However, if your checkraise will get him to drop AQ on the turn, that would be good. And if he won't fire again on the river with 99-77 unimproved, getting him to fold those hands now would be good too. (If he would fire again with those hands, I'm thinking you'd be better off letting him, if you knew that's what he held.)

Anyway, let's see. AA (6 combinations), AK (12 combinations), KK (3 combinations), and QQ (6 combinations) aren't going anywhere (if your read for how he'd play QQ is correct).

For AQ (16 combinations), you either get another bet out of him as a favorite or get him to fold his outs now (though of course he won't fold A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]). Based on your read, he'll fold JJ (6 combinations), so your checkraise will buy you the pot you were a huge underdog to win at showdown if he holds specifically that. Driving out TT (1 combination) will avoid a chop. And then there's also 99-77 (18 combinations), which you're way ahead of.

The pot's kind of small, and a big variable is how he'd play his various possible holdings. For instance, it sounds like your plan is to fire again on the river unimproved if your checkraise is called, and if Villain won't 3-bet AK on the turn, it's going to cost you another bet when he holds that and you fire that last shot.

I don't know. Given your read and the range of hands you provide, I'm not sure checkraising the turn is worth the investment. I'm also not sure why making the checkraise is the only way you'll win the pot, given the range you provided. Would Villain not fire on the flop and turn with AQ and 99-77? If you don't think he would, then it seems like you're very likely checkraising a better hand that Villain won't fold.

oreogod · #3 05-01-2005, 11:14 PM

part of it, was I had just lost a decent sized pot the hand before (so my mind was slightly clouded) and knowing him I just felt he had one of the weaker hands...but still better than mine, so I think it was a mix of things that went into this. Some good, some not so good.

Anyway I just talked to him on MSN and he said he had JJ that hand but he put me on a range of hands and while he kind of thought it was a move to buy the pot, he was 70/30 thinking he was beat, as I dont CR a whole lot on the turn (with weaker hands)...and I do know he read MLHE by ciaffone which states if CR on the turn the opponent can probably beat overpair/top pair...which is good advice, obviously depending on the opponent, and while I get tricky sometimes my image is pretty solid.