How tight is right?

This question might be a bit like the Emporer's new clothes.
I've bought just about every NL book I can find and read every online strategy guide I've come across. They all recommend playing tight (often very tight) in NL cash games.
However, using tools like Poker Office recently, I've noticed that the chip leader at a $20 or $25 NL cash table is often playing very LOOSE, sometimes playing as many as 60% of hands.
Anyone else noticed this contradiction? And what does one do about it????

[xorbie]

Those players are all long term losers.

[Hattifnatt]

If you're new to the game - play tight! supertight in EP.

You'll often see a maniac have more money than everyone else because they made a really big mistake and got real lucky. You'll often see someone win big and then piss it away just as quickly. I think the saying is true that bad players have big wins. Good players normally are more consistent and don't have the kind of huge up and down swings that wild players have.

Just as an example of this, the other day I was playing 50NL and there was a complete moron at the table. He miniraised preflop, a 10bb stack went all-in, then a 50bb stack went all-in, and I pushed my 100bb stack all-in on the button with KK. The moron instacalled with 55 and hit a 5 on the turn. He more than doubled up to about $135. Just an orbit or two later, he was down to $85 and I was back up to $85 (after reloading). I raise the pot with QQ and he calls behind me with KJ. Flop is KQJ. I bet, he raises, we get it all-in on the flop and he hit the K on the turn. He immediately left after that with $170. But he went from $50 to $135 down to $85 and then up to $170 within 30 hands or so. And not once did he make a good decision. So I am not surprised by your observation, but I would be so bold as to guess that they are losing longterm. You don't keep doing dumb things and have things work out for you.

[PugX]

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I've noticed that the chip leader at a $20 or $25 NL cash table is often playing very LOOSE, sometimes playing as many as 60% of hands.


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I guees these players are out taking dumb risks. So, they lose their buyin or doubles up. They win a lot of pots, but its harder for them to win money longterm.

[Rooger]

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However, using tools like Poker Office recently, I've noticed that the chip leader at a $20 or $25 NL cash table is often playing very LOOSE, sometimes playing as many as 60% of hands.

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That's true, but how often do you see a 20/10/4 player at the low stakes? Very rarely - and if you do, very often they'll also have a big stack.
Therefore some of the 60% VPIP people will win from the others - so when the concentration of them is as high as on the small stakes tables, you'll ver often see some of them with big stacks.
Try to compare the ratio of 60% people winning and losing, and the same ratio of 20% people. I'm absolutely positive than the ratio of 20% people winners will be higher than 60%.
Only because there are so many loose players, you'll very often see a loose chipleader.

[kurto]

There is a pattern.... a loose/maniac at a table of idiots has a decent chance of making a profit.

At the lower tables, the so many of the players are so bad, they call the maniac down with nothing and he wins big pots.

Quite often, at a table with just a few thoughtful players, a maniac is able to steal a lot of small pots and build a stack, only to give away all he earns by a tighter player able to set a trap.

[BlackRain]

I see maniacs get big stacks all the time when they first join a table. They make wild bluffs and it takes 10 or 15 minutes for the table as a whole to realize that the guy is just taking pots with air. If the maniac is smart, he proceeds to leave. But the vast majority of the time they stick around and end up losing it all.

The players who I consistently see with big stacks are the same handful of players who are there everyday and I know to be solid.

[Hattifnatt]

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If the maniac is smart, he proceeds to leave. But the vast majority of the time they stick around and end up losing it all.

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I think, if the maniac is even smarter he stays in the game and play TAG ABC poker (and very aggressive with the a great hand) when the opposition has noted he steals with air and has a big chance to get his big hands payed off.

[ghostface]

The guys that are usually the big stack are happy to take what they perceive to be coinflips preflop.

An all in with 88 is reasonable and they will do it a lot because the guys on the WPT push with even worse hands.