so let me see if im getting this right...

PITTM · #1 09-18-2004, 03:32 PM

i know paul phillips was mad about 3% of the prize pool going to casino employees. If so, does this still happen? If it does happen, doesnt it seem ridiculous that the casino makes absurd amounts of money off of the players with their broadcasting deal and that the players are the ones making them the money.

for example, hellmuth busted out fairly early, out of the money, so he paid his 10,000 dollar buyin, 300 dollars of which went to the casino, and then busted out without making any money, but binions/espn still make a ton of money off of people watching hellmuth lose. it just seems a little unfair. it seems like some of that espn money should go to the players. It would be like if players paid to be in the NFL it seems. anyone else think this is a little unfair to the players?

rj

DonkeyKong · #2 09-18-2004, 04:55 PM

that is unfair but vote with your wallet then and don't play in it. is it fair that Binions/ESPN put on the tourney but Phil Hellmuth makes millions off his book and DVD's?? I don't think people play in the tourney for a true immediate return on their buy-in... its for notoriety (and the money that comes with the opportunities that arise if you do win -- see Chris Moneymaker)... why not play 20 $500 buy-in tourneys with lower rake and where you are more likely to show a return for your 'skill'?? you are playing numerous coinflip situations in the short-run anyway...

that said, I agree that this is outrageous and Binions is risking a lot if they keep these shenanigans up...

Daliman · #3 09-18-2004, 10:29 PM

Well, what's the standard fee for a 10K tourney? I know the 6k in Aruba is $200, so proportionally, $333 would be the same. WSOP is keeping only $300, and this tournament takes a lot longer to run and exceptionally more manpower than any other tournament. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

Also, the binions are no longer in control of WSOP, Harrah's is.

slickpoppa · #4 09-18-2004, 10:46 PM

There is nothing unfair about that at all. No one is forced to enter the tournament. If anything, I think it is a good deal for the players. You pay three percent for the opportunity to play in a safe and fair environment and have the chance to be on TV. Of course the casino profits off of it. Since when are businesses supposed to do things for free?

duker41 · #5 09-18-2004, 10:51 PM

And I'm sure Doyle has made a good bit of money off the boost Super/System has gotten in sales the last few years. And Hellmuth also does corporate and private outings, and i'm sure he's seen a boost in interest for those the last few years. Casinos aren't there as a place for people to meet and hang out, they're there to make money. If it takes 300 a man (times 2500 is $750,000) to run their tourney, then that's their right, and it seems that quite a large group of people don't mind paying for it.

Nick B. · #6 09-18-2004, 10:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If anything, I think it is a good deal for the players. You pay three percent for the opportunity to play in a safe and fair environment and have the chance to be on TV. Of course the casino profits off of it. Since when are businesses supposed to do things for free?

[/ QUOTE ]

you surely must realize that the main event used to have 0 vig. On the same note, shouldn't all professional athletes just be happy that they get to be famous and be forced to give back the millions of dollars they make?

slickpoppa · #7 09-18-2004, 11:02 PM

Whether or not the WSOP used to take money is irrelevant. If anyone does not like the fact that 3% of their money is taken, then they simply do not have to enter. If it were so unfair, then why are thousands of people dying to enter the tournament?

Easy E · #8 09-18-2004, 11:18 PM

he was mad that several players paid an extra tip on top of it, without really knowing that the 3% was going out already, and then they couldn't get their extra tips back.

(if we're talking about the same thing here: "i know paul phillips was mad about 3% of the prize pool going to casino employees")

fnurt · #9 09-18-2004, 11:34 PM

I don't think Paul was talking about the WSOP. It was some PokerStars event.

Duke · #10 09-19-2004, 02:08 AM

I could very well be wrong, but if Paul reads this and I am I'm sure he'll correct me.

One thing was that Paul didn't like Becky tooling around taking some amount out of the prize pool on top of the juice, supposedly to be given to dealers. It was either a horrendous amount, or she wasn't actually giving it to the dealers anyhow. Him voicing his opinion was the reason, IIRC, for him being banned from Binions back then. This is all from some reading of old RGP posts I did a couple months ago. I didn't know of it as it happened since I had never even heard of Paul Phillips before mid-December of last year. I think that everyone in the world hating Becky Binion is enough evidence in Paul's favor to say that he was right.

Anyhow, the Stars thing was a different instance that was similar. They didn't make it clear that they were indeed withholding a certain percentage for the dealers, and some people who cashed rather highly seem to have been deliberately misled into tipping an extra chunk on top of what was already withheld. Paul did what he could to publicize it since he thought that a wrong had been done. I think he's right on that, and since a lot of people tend to read what he says it made sense.

Just trying to prevent this from getting confusing by 2 separate instances being jumbled into one. That's how legends are made, though, so maybe it's better if they are combined. Within 2 months Paul would be 10 feet tall and shoot fire from his arse. Knowing the online poker community, I'd bet against that. It'd go from being trespassed at Binions -> jail -> gay taking it in the arse.

~D