100 NL Final Table Hand - Screwed Up Every Way Possible

Double Eagle · #1 02-04-2005, 03:07 PM

Here is a hand from last nights's 100NL on Stars. Payouts were 7k, 4.5k, 2,8, 2k, 1.5k. The Big Stack in the BB is a maniac who has been calling all ins with Bottom Pair and the like. First mistake here was a mis-click - I meant to raise 3x BB. From there I compounded the error by getting all my chips in on what I thought was a coinflip (assumed my Ace was good.)

Does anyone here check behind on the flop? What about the flop bet size? Finally, is this as easy a fold as I think it is, even against a maniac?

Flame away....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (5 handed) converter

BB (t168873)
UTG (t29631)
Hero (t61873)
Button (t51129)
SB (t52994)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t6000, 2 folds, BB calls t3000.

Flop: (t9600) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t12000, BB raises to t30000, Hero raises to t55723, BB calls t25723.

Turn: (t121046) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t121046) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t121046

Results in white below: 
BB has 7s 2c (two pair, sevens and twos).
Hero has Ah 5h (high card, ace).
Outcome: BB wins t121046.

BlackAces · #2 02-04-2005, 03:22 PM

I'd definitely check behind on this flop. You want a hand before getting your money in against a maniac. If you make your hand on the turn, you could still get paid off. Also, if he's a maniac, I'd be very suspicious of the check on the flop.

How much is really in the pot here? Looks like the converter screwed up the pot size on the flop. Assuming the pot size is around 16K (your 6000 + BB's 6000 + SB's 1500 + 2500 in antes), the flop bet was OK.

I think it is a fairly easy fold. A check-raise is still a strong move, even (especially?) by a maniac. He would've bet just about anything but a monster.

Prime Time · #3 02-04-2005, 04:25 PM

Kev, what’s up?

1st he makes a terrible call for even a min raise w/ 2 7 off.
He probably calls 3x as well.

I think you need to check the flop, but I probably try to take the pot right there myself.
Now the C/R, needs to send alarms off. The 30K raise does not give you proper odds to call (close though) any more, so you should probably call here, not push and see the turn.

I burned out in a similar way recently, and know how you are feeling. Just learn and move on.

betgo · #4 02-04-2005, 05:03 PM

The nut flush draw and overcard is pretty strong. You had a 36% chance to win the hand against two pair. Against top pair it is a coinflip. There was a lot of money in the pot, so I don't blame you for pushing.

You could have checked the flop, but betting is not bad. I don't think you particularly misplayed this hand. Just bad luck.

Double Eagle · #5 02-04-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kev, what’s up?

1st he makes a terrible call for even a min raise w/ 2 7 off.
He probably calls 3x as well.

I think you need to check the flop, but I probably try to take the pot right there myself.
Now the C/R, needs to send alarms off. The 30K raise does not give you proper odds to call (close though) any more, so you should probably call here, not push and see the turn.

I burned out in a similar way recently, and know how you are feeling. Just learn and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I never really considered just calling as I would expect him to push the turn and I would be obligated to call getting 4-1. I figured my pot odds on the push were 44:80 - and since my ace was probably good this is a very good price. Unfortunately this is one of those circumstances where CEV and $EV are pretty far apart - it only took 2 more orbits for the final two to get HU and I'm confident I could have basically folded into at least third position even if I don't catch a hand in the meantime.....

betgo · #6 02-04-2005, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately this is one of those circumstances where CEV and $EV are pretty far apart -

[/ QUOTE ]

You had a 36% chance of winning this hand and you thought you had a 50% chance plus pot odds. If you win this hand, you are in 2nd place not far out of 1st place. The big money is in the top 2 places, not folding into 3rd or 4th.