"Stealing" with AKs from SB, BB pushes back hard

KillerDucky · #1 02-27-2005, 01:44 PM

Home game, villian has a tendancy to playback, but the one time I pushed back when the board was Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] he claims he laid down AQ (no spade, I had Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]), so he can release hands.

Now the hand in question. $0.50/$1 blinds, villian has around $200, I have him covered. Folded around to me in the SB, I have AKs. Button asks if we want to chop, and I say "I can't, my hand is too good" and make it $3 total. So first, should I make it more to let him know that this is more than just a stealing hand? And also because I'm "stealing" from the SB not the button?

BB makes it $15 total relatively quickly. So now what? Fold and just be happy I only lost $3? Raise to let him know that I have a legitimate hand? If so how much?

I made probably the worst decision possible by just calling. Flop comes something like 533, two diamonds, so I have a flush draw. I bet out $20 into the $30 pot. I figure either I take it down there or I'm done? (Unless he gives me a free shot at a flush...)

tbach24 · #2 02-27-2005, 01:49 PM

Call and fire any flop.

Tilt · #3 02-27-2005, 02:04 PM

Reraise to 50 and push any flop. I mean, what the hell would he be willing to chop with but is now willing to raise with? Make him pay for that kind of play. This assumes his offer to chop was legitimate.

tbach24 · #4 02-27-2005, 02:17 PM

The button asked them to chop, not the BB. In a cash game I played in, the SB asked me if I wanted to chop when I had AKs, I told him no, I raised, he called, the flop was AK4, we got all-in and he had AKs as well (I had the free-roll though).

KillerDucky · #5 02-27-2005, 09:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Call and fire any flop.

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Ok that is in fact what I did.
You already corrected Tilt about the chop comment, it came from the button not the BB. I included that information because I thought it could increase the probability that BB thinks I'm stealing and thus increase the chance that he is just trying to resteal.

The players at the table were discussing the hand afterwards and most thought I should have reraised to $50 to make it clear I had a legitimite hand. They talked about not giving BB a "free" look at the flop. I'm not sure what I think about the "free" look since BB already charged himself $15... Another idea is that if BB is trying to steal with a medium/small pocket pair he doesn't have terrible odds with respect to his stack size, $15 is 7.5% of his stack so if I just call he can try to get all my money on a set, but if I reraise he probably lays down TT or worse, maybe lays down QQ/JJ.

TheWorstPlayer · #6 02-27-2005, 10:19 PM

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if I reraise he probably lays down TT or worse, maybe lays down QQ/JJ.

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If he lays down QQ/JJ or even TT heads up, that is pretty sad. I mean, he has to have over 50% equity against your range of hands heads up, no matter how tight you are and how strongly you play it. Particularly QQ, gimme a break.

KillerDucky · #7 02-27-2005, 11:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he lays down QQ/JJ or even TT heads up, that is pretty sad. I mean, he has to have over 50% equity against your range of hands heads up, no matter how tight you are and how strongly you play it. Particularly QQ, gimme a break.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise, he reraises, I re-reraise. I think this is a pretty clear message to him. You think his QQ has over 50% equity against the range of hands that I do this with? Exactly what range of hands do you think I would defend my $3 "steal" raise to a $15 reraise by coming over the top of him?

Personally I would only do this with AKs, AA, KK. Suppose for argument's sake that I would do it with a wider range: AA-QQ, AKs, and AKo. PokerStove gives the QQ only 36.4% equity against this range.

I understand that in a straight heads up game I would possibly be re-rerasing with more hands, but this is a 7 handed game that just happened to be folded to me in the SB. In this case there isn't much reason to defend a $3 steal if I have a less than premium hand.

NiceCatch · #8 02-27-2005, 11:21 PM

You know this guy better than I do obviously, but do you really believe he laid down AQ in that other hand?? TPTK... I dunno, that's a tough laydown.

In this case, I like Tilt's advice. By the way, I disagree that the villain is "charging himself." If you had a big pair, maybe, but AK is not a made hand. If he has even a pair, you're the one being charged. I re-raise preflop. If it's a coinflip (i.e. he has a pp), then you deal with it. But with LAG's and aggros, you gotta make a stand at some point, and I think this is a pretty good spot for it.

tdarko · #9 02-27-2005, 11:32 PM

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I would defend my $3 "steal" raise

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i am glad you put steal in quotes like that because i dont think you are stealing there. heads up against a stack you have covered i want action with this hand.

TheWorstPlayer · #10 02-27-2005, 11:59 PM

It really isn't a question of protecting your $3 steal. Once he re-raises, say to $15, the pot is now $18 not $3. And what range of hands would you have to make a move at an $18 pot against a guy who could be attempting to resteal? I hope a very wide range. If it is only AA/KK/AK that you will come over the top of a potential re-steal with, you will be in trouble against a good player. You might as well not try to steal because by stealing you are giving up $3 every time you don't have a top 3 hand against a guy who re-raises liberally.