[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
If those players are good enough to understand that your pushing range is large, they should also be good enough to know that by calling, they take EV from the 2 of you and give it to the rest of the players. Shouldn't they? What I'm saying is that they would know it is "correct" to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are plenty of calls that people could make that are +ev for them, -ev for you, and they don't make them at lower stakes games, but they are mildly likely to make them at higher stakes games. in the higher stakes games, they make some strange calls that are -ev for them -ev for you (as they make them in the lower stakes games), but that's a different story. curtains is talking about the types of calls that he has been posting quite a bit about lately, say, in the day old post about chaostricize's A3 or A8 or whatnot hand, where the call is +ev, but some players will not make it (there are more borderline plays than that, such as fiery's 33 call against curtains a while back).

the point is that while some calling is -ev -ev, there's also calls that are +ev (opp) -ev (you) if your opp puts you correctly on a signficantly wide range of hands. that doesn't mean necessarilly that you or your opp made a mistake in the hand, it just means that your opp made a +ev call. the notion that all late game calls that don't involve premium pocket pairs are bad calls are wrong is incorrect, obsolete, and just debunked, at this point. the players who are thriving and continuing to improve at those players that understand this.

the point is that the correct way to play in the late game changes considerably based on the stakes and opponents you are playing. (stakes in this case used to imply a differing basis of average opponents.) when the average opponent is pushing too tight, and calling too tight, it makes sense to call less and push more. as your opponents move towards pushing optimally and calling optimally, so do your pushes and calls have to move as well, so against looser pushes, you must call looser, and against looser callsers, well, you must push optimally based on their pushing ranges, which is tighter than when the players are tight, but not necessarilly tighter than when they are loose and stupid in their calls.

kowing your opponents is key.

citanul