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Old 08-31-2001, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Pot Commitment (long)



I think a key to raising preflop with this hand in particular is your ability to not marry yourself to it. One of the most misunderstood things I hear people say is something like "J-10s plays well against a large field" - its a true statement but only because it is easy to let go if you miss the flop and there are a number of ways it could hit the flop. To hear some people talk about it, you'd think J-10s WINS more often just because its a large multiway field.


KK does NOT play well against a large field, because often you will lose the hand AND have to pay off to the river (barring an ace falling).


Anyways to address some of your specific points: Furthermore, these guys are coming regardless of whether its 2 bets, 3 bets, or 4 bets. Why not just flat call for deception purposes later?


My answer: I want them to come for 4 bets. I have a better hand than them! Deception has no purpose here as you are going to have to win a showdown regardless. I'd rather let them know I have the big duke and if they want to chase, I want them to know it ain't gonna be cheap.


The closest analogy I can draw to that is a college professor using a 10 year old paradigm to try to explain a "real world" situation that is much more complicated than the model structure.


I don't see the analogy. This is not a paradigm or a general rule of thumb. When you have KK, you have the most pot equity, so build a big pot.


How am I doing in the current session


Possible to take into consideration, but not a big factor for me. As I said, whether they call with a worse hand or not is fine with me. Every dollar they put in the pot is more mine than anyone else's. If they fold, my odds of winning the already large pot grow faster.


Deception


I don't care who knows it, I ALWAYS RAISE PREFLOP WITH KK! My philosophy on such things has always been to raise with MORE hands preflop so that my raises will already have deception. I have always lived by the credo "It's easier to NOT make a hand than to make one", so I want my opponents to know that when I have something I'm going to be pounding it through the table, so that later, when I DON'T have anything, I can pound it through the table anyways and all they will be thinking is "bah, he's got KK again, that lucky young punk...fold". I see people limp in with KK or AA often enough, and I assure you that I don't later think that when they limp it probably means AA or KK. They may win an extra bet out of me or two on THIS hand, but I'll make it all back at some point later when they let me in cheaply preflop and I suck out on them with something I would have folded for two bets before the flop.


Playing skills


There isn't much in the way of playing skills that is going to win this pot. This kind of pot requires someone to say "here is the best hand" after all the betting on the river. When a pot gets to 15BB, I always expect it to be see a show down. In your case, there are 8BB in the pot preflop, so I'd imagine it will get that big very quickly. If I thought I could outplay the field, I would be limping in with a much wider range of hands, but that doesn't have much implication to me here.



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