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Old 09-29-2004, 10:15 AM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 11,600 km from Vegas
Posts: 489
Default Re: A few hands for the baby bluffers (long)

OK, there are quite a few hands here. Normally I'm too lazy to check out on long sequences of hands, and giving them a deep thought, but since durron has PMed me about it, I'll do it! (I Hope there will be some serious arguments and wars on this thread, so we will have some fun... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

As a general note, disscussing bluffs is always a bit problematic, because bluffs are so much about a certain read, specific history with an opponent, previous hands, and over all feel (with regard to "online tells", etc). Of course, it is possible to say I don't like this or that bluff, since the conditions are not too good for it, and I don't need more delicate infotmation to say so. But in many marginal cases, it is more complicated.

To the hands:

First hand - looks fine. The only think that could bother me here is the flop - it is too much in the "playing zone" (K+J) which means there's some concrete chance your opponent, which is probably a bit on the loose side, has caught some part of it, and will be willing to go to the felt. Betting is fine when it's checked to you, but this is a case where considering checking behind might be good too.

As to your notes about "great image hand". As I see it, every image is "great", if you know how to use it to your advantage. It's only a question of understanding what image a specific hand (or better: a sequence of hands) has created.

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though I have begun stealing long enough ago that BB's preflop call here isn't terrible

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Think about it this way: stealing later is definitely more profitable than stealing early on. So if you steal too much early on, you a) win small blinds which are not worth much b) turning your image into one that makes it more difficult to steal blinds later on, when they are much bigger and worth more. Only some thoughts.

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Basically, I want to show down that I'm not taking stabs, and I am definitely only getting called when behind (and basically all the time when behind).

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I don't know exactly what you mean here, since you did take a stab at this pot, and folded to the check-raise. Another point is, that getting called *only* when behind (i.e, when your opponents are behind), is not a natural thing, and might indicate that you're not bluffing enough (but I don't think so). You should get called, sometimes, when you're behind. Of course you don't want it to happen, but if it never happens, your are probably playing too tight. But it also very much depends on the specific conditions (and surely, a strong player will get called much more when he's ahead, don't get me wrong).

Hand 2:

OK, here you decided not to take a stab. I think I might try betting the turn, or even the river if it's checked up until that point. Depending on my read. Against certain players I wouldn't do it. This guy looks like a PF calling station, so I'm not too afraid anymore of hands he might hold, and if he IS capable of folding Ax (x=garbage) and smallest pairs if he doesn't hit anything (some low buy-in players can't), you can try to push him out. Anyway, I'm sure you know more about him than you did at the previous AT hand.

Hand 3

Well, I think he's the kind of player who simply like seeing flops. Your play is good.

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I think that having a standard 2/3 pot bet is good, you price out the draws

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In bluffing in cases like these, against fishy calling stations, it's not a question of pricing draws. You don't have a hand, remember. Calling stations will call with their draws, even without odds. Speaking about "pricing draws" make sense only if you have a made hand, OR you are playing against a more sophisticated player, who is actually thinking about what YOU have vs. what HE has vs. the size of the pot, etc. But I agree with yout point that one should not get over-enthusiastic with bluffing too big, so one could get out with enough chips if the other guy wakes up with a hand (in some structure, party for instance, it is more difficult, since many times any reasonable bet/raise is all-in).

OK, that's long enough for one time. I get to the rest of it later on. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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